Proud Dad / Some advice please?

Enrol into some manner of self defence class; regardless of her future career path, the ability to look after oneself has never been a handicap. In this regard, Krav Maga is rarely found wanting.
Not needed. Recruits do an extensive officer safety course using Home Office approved techniques which are practised regulary. If you start knocking seven bells out of the baddies using Kung Fu tactics you may be questioned by a defence lawyer if the moves you used are Home Office taught and approved.

Officers are issued extendable metal batons called ASP's and CS spray which evened things up for a lot of female officers.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Not needed. Recruits do an extensive officer safety course using Home Office approved techniques which are practised regulary. If you start knocking seven bells out of the baddies using Kung Fu tactics you may be questioned by a defence lawyer if the moves you used are Home Office taught and approved.

Officers are issued extendable metal batons called ASP's and CS spray which evened things up for a lot of female officers.
Aye, Krav Maga and the like will hamper her massively and she will hear the phrase "Home Office Approved" a lot.
 
Wouldn't touch Magnums mate, they're garbage and not at all sturdy, try Haix
I never had any problem with Magnums. Used them all through my Met service with no problem. Things might have moved on in boot fashion but you need a lightweight boot for police work most of which will be on urban streets in the big city forces. Even in the counties you are not doing long tabs like in the army and wearing them for weeks. Anyway she wont need them again after her two years probation if she is going to the CID.
 

Ayatollah

Old-Salt
My daughter has just been offered a conditional* place on the fast track detective scheme. Whilst I fully acknowledge that some well informed and experienced people here are sceptical, I’m after some advice please?

As yet, there are no specifics on her basic training. She will be doing the full basic course then 2 years ”proper copper” stuff. I’m guessing the usual advice on getting reasonably fit and keeping your mouth shut / arse and ears open would be a good start but anything else?

On a more practical level, I promised to buy her a decent pair of boots if she was successful. I’m thinking Altberg but am very open to advice based on experience (when I last wore boots, Magnum HiTecs were the last word, I’m thinking things will have moved on?).

My thanks in advance.

*conditional on security checks,medical, fitness etc, none should be a problem as she has passed the Prison Officer selection already.
This is the third thread today mentioning boots ???

When I was in it was DMS for the use of, unless you were rich enough to buy Doc Martins.
 
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On the boots. Bestard Grenada. Urban boot. We use the SAR variety for work. Very comfortable, durable. good ankle support. Well done to Her.And good luck in the job.
 
My daughter has just been offered a conditional* place on the fast track detective scheme. Whilst I fully acknowledge that some well informed and experienced people here are sceptical, I’m after some advice please?

As yet, there are no specifics on her basic training. She will be doing the full basic course then 2 years ”proper copper” stuff. I’m guessing the usual advice on getting reasonably fit and keeping your mouth shut / arse and ears open would be a good start but anything else?

On a more practical level, I promised to buy her a decent pair of boots if she was successful. I’m thinking Altberg but am very open to advice based on experience (when I last wore boots, Magnum HiTecs were the last word, I’m thinking things will have moved on?).

My thanks in advance.

*conditional on security checks,medical, fitness etc, none should be a problem as she has passed the Prison Officer selection already.
One thing not mentioned - shift work. Police shifts seem to play massive havoc with your sleeping patterns. I have still not got over them even though I left six years ago. Hence myself and other ex plod posting in the early hours of the morning.

Shift patterns are a bit better than on uniform but CID officers never know what time they are going to finish when start a shift. If they have prisoners to deal with, generally they are there to the end until the brief has turned up, suspect interviewed and if charged, the case papers done. Then you are back on duty again in a few hours. This happens in uniform too but not as often as CID.

CID officers have a large number of ongoing cases as well and there work loads are considerable. The more that you complete, the more your DS will pass onto you. It needs considerable case management to keep on top of it. Women seem to be far more capable of this then men. In fact in my experience, generally women make far better detectives than men.

One police term she will hear a lot is 'cover your self.' The police are very much into the blame game and if anything goes wrong the senior managment will look for a 'duty scapegoat' usually as far down the chain as possible. If you do everything by the book as per the SOP's then you have covered your back and they can find someone else to be a scapegoat.

In the Met there are far more women than there used to be. In the nineties you were lucky to have two on a team. The police are very incestous and as others have said love to gossip about any perceived scandal especially about their female collegues who they will be all friendly and girly with to their face while talking about them behind their back.

She will have the pleasure of searching female prisoners in custody. The female street vagies are even smellier than their male counterparts and usually have the decoraters in (on the blob) when they have to be searched by a lady officer, so I have been told.

Finally, police love banter. When she becomes a TDC she should be sure to refer to all uniform officers as 'woodies,' 'woodentops' and 'thick woodentops' and refer to herself and her collegues as 'techies' (short for detectives). Uniform officers will love her for it. Talking about being demoted to uniform or promoted to CID goes down well as well.

P.S. At least she wont be hated as much as Traffic officers who are referred to as 'black rats' or in these more politically correct times just as 'rats'. A good traffic officer will have 'stuck on' (given a traffic ticket) at least one hearse during their career (extra points if there is still a coffin in it) and the most admired traffic officers will have stuck on their own mum.
 
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I never had any problem with Magnums. Used them all through my Met service with no problem. Things might have moved on in boot fashion but you need a lightweight boot for police work most of which will be on urban streets in the big city forces. Even in the counties you are not doing long tabs like in the army and wearing them for weeks. Anyway she wont need them again after her two years probation if she is going to the CID.

This is where I get a justifiable ear-bashing from all the bobbies, ex and still serving, but I can't help it. For those officers whose job involves basic urban work, what's the need for expensive, fancy boots?

I worked for many years in jobs that had me on my feet for anything up to 10 or 12 hours a day. I worked in food processing plants with hard concrete or metal floors, that frequently got slippery and wet. I often went from absolute freezing conditions in a blast chiller, clambering over frozen boxes and stackers to hot environments where cooking was taking place with grease and other nasty stuff all over the place or out in the muddy delivery yard in wind, rain or snow, and in all that time I don't think I ever gave the slightest thought to my footwear.

I simply wore decent quality leather brogues, they could get a bit grotty at times and needed a polish if I had to go to head office or the bank but for the rest of the time they served me perfectly well, and in the unlikely occasion that I had to give someone a good hard kick *********** they were perfectly functional for that.

So, honestly speaking, given the routine and run-of-the-mill work that most peelers in any city do for 95% of the time, is there really this great need to spend a fortune on expensive, high-tech boots?

/Flame-proof coat on
 
So, honestly speaking, given the routine and run-of-the-mill work that most peelers in any city do for 95% of the time, is there really this great need to spend a fortune on expensive, high-tech boots?
I think cops, like squaddies, just like to look Ally. They can't go buying non issue uniform items like the military though so I suppose the only way they can do it is spending a fortune on expensive, high-tech boots.

Call it the 'Constable Savage' look.
 
Two things.

Enrol into some manner of self defence class; regardless of her future career path, the ability to look after oneself has never been a handicap. In this regard, Krav Maga is rarely found wanting.

Get an interest outside of work. Be that classical guitar, Banksy's finest works, learning Serbo-Croat or piano lessons. Have somewhere you can retreat to when the world of work gets a bit severe.

Wholeheartedly agree. When I started as a Police Cadet I started regular training with one of the PC who was well rated in martial arts. Helped me out of serious doo doo more times than I care to remember.

Anything dynamic rather than pretty, Krav Maga, MMA, or some srious kick boxing not the exercise kind.

As for boots: 10 years ago when I gave up being a Special Constable it was either Doc’s, or Hitec Magnums.

You get a stab vest and if you are on the public order teams you get other odds and sods. But privately purchased cricket boxes and decent shin pads can be worth their weight on a dodgy friday night.

If Monadnock batons are issued a decent Monadnock baton holder is worth buying. Also a Hindi Cap for the baton.

A pen style handcuf key.

I had Niton 999 make up some epaulettes for me; with my number embroidered on rather than the metal numbers. Being hit downwards on the shoulder and having the screw pins on the backs of the metal numbers dig into you makes your eyes water.

Quality torch that takes sensible batteries. The decision is do you use a BFO maglite that doubles as a forget me stick, or use a small surefire type......personal preferance.
 
I think cops, like squaddies, just like to look Ally. They can't go buying non issue uniform items like the military though so I suppose the only way they can do it is spending a fortune on expensive, high-tech boots.

Call it the 'Constable Savage' look.

Our ARV blokes had Danner boots issued, and the county next door issued their ARV blokes with Lowa boots.
 

TamH70

MIA
Never been a cop but I do spend a lot of time on my feet - my ideal of a brisk walk can sometimes take me from Paisley to Irvine the long way - so I wear boots pretty much all the time. Custom-built "walking" boots aren't made for the urban environment or even road work as they tend to weigh a metric tonne, so after a lot of trial and much error I settled on these:


They're light, have decent ankle support, comfy uppers and the sole, critically, is very comfortable on the foot and also non-slip, which stops one taking headers when one trips on ice, oil, leaf-litter and mud. They'll do a year or so, maybe a year and a half before they fall to bits, but they won't wreck your legs and ankles like my one and only pair of Meindls did. For sixty quid you can't go wrong. So much so I bought another pair that I'm waiting on delivery for.

I'd tell your daughter to avoid Merrells. Their soles are garbage.
 
Our ARV blokes had Danner boots issued, and the county next door issued their ARV blokes with Lowa boots.
Why for FFS? 22 SAS don't wear or didn't wear Danner or Lowa boots when they were on the SP Team on CRW. They wore a good light weight urbane boot as they were unlikely to be carrying out a 60 K endurance march over the Welsh hills?

Edit. It was why the British Army in all its wisdom produced a lightweight urban patrol boot in NI in 1974. It wasn't designed though for carrying out rural patrols in South Armagh for a week.
 
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TamH70

MIA
Why for FFS? 22 SAS don't wear or didn't wear Danner or Lowa boots when they were on the SP Team on CRW. They wore a good light weight urbane boot as they were unlikely to be carrying out a 60 K endurance march over the Welsh hills?

Edit. It was why the British Army in all its wisdom produced a lightweight urban patrol boot in NI in 1974. It wasn't designed though for carrying out rural patrols in South Armagh for a week.

When I were a lad and all this was but caves because fields hadn't been invented yet, I used to lust after N.I boots, as BCH were garbage and DMS were comfy but even worse than N.I boots for going off-road in.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
I never had any problem with Magnums. Used them all through my Met service with no problem. Things might have moved on in boot fashion but you need a lightweight boot for police work most of which will be on urban streets in the big city forces. Even in the counties you are not doing long tabs like in the army and wearing them for weeks. Anyway she wont need them again after her two years probation if she is going to the CID.
Maybe I've just been unlucky or they just don't work for me, I used to get through a pair in about 3 months. Since @MrBane kindly gave me a freebie pair of Haix boots a couple or three years ago, the only thing I've had done is have them resoled.
 
Keep an eye on her, the stress just builds up from the unrelenting workload and the normal human reaction of seeing stuff that utterly defies human decency and some outright horrendous sights tends to get brushed off a bit. But it does creep up on you in quiet spells.
I’d like to echo this point. I went on a station visit when I was in training and every beat copper in there had the same drawn out, jaded look on their faces, as blokes who had come back from Iraq/Afghanistan. It was very sad to see, on Police Officers who are so young.
Mental Health is getting better for them, but it’s still got a way to go. With all the extra work your daughter is going to have outside of duty time, helping out by just providing an escape will work wonders
 
Otherwise you end up full of shit.

Too many people fail to understand why man was created with TWO ears and ONE mouth. Receipt of information, such as in a training environment as a trainee, usually benefits from maximum use of the former and minimum of the latter. Apart from the act of gathering knowledge, it also tends not to piss off those delivering said knowledge. This arrangement is particularly beneficial when they are going to determine your future up to and including hanging on to your job.
 
One thing not mentioned - shift work. Police shifts seem to play massive havoc with your sleeping patterns. I have still not got over them even though I left six years ago. Hence myself and other ex plod posting in the early hours of the morning.

Shift patterns are a bit better than on uniform but CID officers never know what time they are going to finish when start a shift. If they have prisoners to deal with, generally they are there to the end until the brief has turned up, suspect interviewed and if charged, the case papers done. Then you are back on duty again in a few hours. This happens in uniform too but not as often as CID.

CID officers have a large number of ongoing cases as well and there work loads are considerable. The more that you complete, the more your DS will pass onto you. It needs considerable case management to keep on top of it. Women seem to be far more capable of this then men. In fact in my experience, generally women make far better detectives than men.

One police term she will hear a lot is 'cover your self.' The police are very much into the blame game and if anything goes wrong the senior managment will look for a 'duty scapegoat' usually as far down the chain as possible. If you do everything by the book as per the SOP's then you have covered your back and they can find someone else to be a scapegoat.

In the Met there are far more women than there used to be. In the nineties you were lucky to have two on a team. The police are very incestous and as others have said love to gossip about any perceived scandal especially about their female collegues who they will be all friendly and girly with to their face while talking about them behind their back.

She will have the pleasure of searching female prisoners in custody. The female street vagies are even smellier than their male counterparts and usually have the decoraters in (on the blob) when they have to be searched by a lady officer, so I have been told.

Finally, police love banter. When she becomes a TDC she should be sure to refer to all uniform officers as 'woodies,' 'woodentops' and 'thick woodentops' and refer to herself and her collegues as 'techies' (short for detectives). Uniform officers will love her for it. Talking about being demoted to uniform or promoted to CID goes down well as well.

P.S. At least she wont be hated as much as Traffic officers who are referred to as 'black rats' or in these more politically correct times just as 'rats'. A good traffic officer will have 'stuck on' (given a traffic ticket) at least one hearse during their career (extra points if there is still a coffin in it) and the most admired traffic officers will have stuck on their own mum.
Excellent given but have a Funny too. I will be sure to highlight the tongue in cheek bits. I’m assuming she needs to play the gender card as often as possible too and also ensure she times her blob to coincide with dark nights, shitty weather, and crap taskings, wandering about clutching her gut, wincing and saying “tsk, there it goes again”?
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
This is where I get a justifiable ear-bashing from all the bobbies, ex and still serving, but I can't help it. For those officers whose job involves basic urban work, what's the need for expensive, fancy boots?

I worked for many years in jobs that had me on my feet for anything up to 10 or 12 hours a day. I worked in food processing plants with hard concrete or metal floors, that frequently got slippery and wet. I often went from absolute freezing conditions in a blast chiller, clambering over frozen boxes and stackers to hot environments where cooking was taking place with grease and other nasty stuff all over the place or out in the muddy delivery yard in wind, rain or snow, and in all that time I don't think I ever gave the slightest thought to my footwear.

I simply wore decent quality leather brogues, they could get a bit grotty at times and needed a polish if I had to go to head office or the bank but for the rest of the time they served me perfectly well, and in the unlikely occasion that I had to give someone a good hard kick *********** they were perfectly functional for that.

So, honestly speaking, given the routine and run-of-the-mill work that most peelers in any city do for 95% of the time, is there really this great need to spend a fortune on expensive, high-tech boots?

/Flame-proof coat on
Scuffling about on the floor with a bloke who really, really does not want to be arrested and losing a shoe could be problamatic. Ditto scrambling over a wall into the unknown. They don't have to be expensive or fancy, just comfortable with good ankle support and long lasting, but of course that comes at a cost. Shoes are for the office and court.
 
Thanks very much everyone, it’s coming over pretty much as I’d expected with distinct parallels with the military re working environment, being aware of your place on the food chain etc.

I’d not considered the mental health / stress / fatigue aspect as much as I perhaps should have so that’s very valuable advice. She’s pretty level headed and having done a degree in policing and forensics (or something) sees that only as a confirmation that she is interested by the job and an intro to some of the less fun bits (the course included attending post mortems). Most of her tutors were ex police and were clear this was a foundation rather than making her an SME.

She‘s now left home and is about to marry a bloke every Dad would want as a SiL so I’m confident he can provide the support she’ll need and not be afraid to ask us to back him up.

She’s joining a county Force and its Fast Track not Direct Entry. 2 years probation on Response before she goes near anything clever to answer a number of questions raised.

I will show both of them this thread so please, keep it coming.

I’m very grateful.
 
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