PROPOSED QUOTAS FOR ARMED FORCES

#1
It's finally arrived!

I note from an article in the Daily Snail (so it must be true!) that the Armed Forces have been allocated quotas to reach by 2008 of ethnic minorities to reflect the proportions within the civilian population.

Bearing in mind the recruiting/retention probs at the moment, I don't know where they are going to get the various percentages from but I suppose someone in MRO will be allocated a target to vet all applications and make sure each unit hsas the right split.

A bit like the Police recruitment in Gloucester a few months back.

As the Forces are voluntary does this mean a further dilution of selection to meet targets or will certain trades/Corps/Regts be 'full' until they meet their quota.

Surely, if it's not broke, don't fix it! :roll:
 
#2
Reduce the numbers of white people in the armed forces till the minorities reach the right levels, or perhaps the ethic recruiting team should turn into the Ethnic Press Gang squad, forcing those we are short to join and hey presto, quotas filled.
 
#3
I'm a white, 'strawberry blond' Jock, so probably the totally typical Caucasian white ethnic type, however it always gives me no small amount of pleasure when filling in various forms by marking my ethnic origin as 'other' or some variation thereof. Only last week I applied for a library card and filled in a form (god knows why they need that info) where I am now officially 'white/other'.

If more people followed my example we could meet all current and future quotas in no time!!
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#4
If you read the article it states that Foreign and Commonwealth soldiers (which form 10% of the Armed Forces!!) DO NOT COUNT when working out the ethnic minority figures. How does that work then? Are they saying that we could have (stand by for exageration!!) 85% F&C soldiers - and yet still fall short of the ethic recruiting targets?






edited 'cos my spelling sucks!
 
#5
We will obviously need a balance of Asians (Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Indian and Chinese) to reflect the melting pot of British society. Might not do much for operational efficiency but could give the production of RLC Chefs and PAYD output a significant boost!
 
#6
Having just completed the EO & Diversity course recently I would hope that the drive is just an attempt to find out why ethnic minorities don't join up, if thats the case then it should be applauded as as we all know we're well undermanned. If not then it'll again be another PC mare but I can't imagine New Labour forcing this sort of thing on us surely...you'll be telling me we'll have same sex MQs next!! ;)
 
#7
Sounds a bit strange, and I might have the wrong end of the stick..

But if not enough of the ethnic minorities join up & the armed forces does not meet it's quota does this in turn mean that Army recruitment will turn away people who wish to join but are not part of said ethnic minorities?

-Off the tip of my tongue (sounds a bit racist)? *And I don't mean to offend anyone!
-Would you have to switch faith in order to gain access to the recruitment options?
 
#8
I put myself down as black on the last census. So sue me....I bet my DNA is pretty mixed.

Actually the Army has faced up to these ethnic problems in time past. In 1918 when they were short of recruits for the (I can't remember the details) the Gordons and the Seaforths they sent two companies of let's say the Devons to the Gordons and two companies of the Green Howards to the Seaforths.

There was also a case in the IA of a battalion of dogras being dressed up as Rajputs - or some such - to baffle a local ruler into giving up the keys to his kingdom.

I can't wait to see the Gurkhas after they are forced to operate a non-discrimination policy!
 
#9
Digital said:
Sounds a bit strange, and I might have the wrong end of the stick..

But if not enough of the ethnic minorities join up & the armed forces does not meet it's quota does this in turn mean that Army recruitment will turn away people who wish to join but are not part of said ethnic minorities?

-Off the tip of my tongue (sounds a bit racist)? *And I don't mean to offend anyone!
-Would you have to switch faith in order to gain access to the recruitment options?
Yes I think you probably have got the wrong end of the stick...

AFAIK when selecting employees its illegal to choose a member of an ethnic minority over a white person just to meet a quota - you must choose the best applicants regardless of colour (unless say you are recruiting an actor to play Martin Luther King in which case you could insist on a black person). What is allowed is to target your recruiting efforts to meet a particular quota. So you could send recruiting teams to certain areas to encourage as many ethnic minorities to apply.

Tricam.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#11
Cuddles said:
I put myself down as black on the last census. So sue me....I bet my DNA is pretty mixed.

Actually the Army has faced up to these ethnic problems in time past. In 1918 when they were short of recruits for the (I can't remember the details) the Gordons and the Seaforths they sent two companies of let's say the Devons to the Gordons and two companies of the Green Howards to the Seaforths.

There was also a case in the IA of a battalion of dogras being dressed up as Rajputs - or some such - to baffle a local ruler into giving up the keys to his kingdom.

I can't wait to see the Gurkhas after they are forced to operate a non-discrimination policy!

I agree. There should be some Irish in 2 RGR.
 
#12
Back when the Rangers were not allowed to serve in Ulster their roll-call allegedly went "Silverberg, Patel, Kossov, Kowalski...1st Battalion the Royal Irish Rangers present and correct sir!"
 
#13
canteen_cowboy said:
your near knuckle racism post is moved for a while it may or may not be re-instated
I saw this comment on Monday and at first I thought it referred to some of the comments made by others replying on the site then realised you may be referring to my entry.

As usual, the old R word surfaces when a topic is put up for open debate that doesn't meet what the thought Police (apparently yourself) doesn not find suitable. I read the guidelines on posting and do not believe this is racist or motivated in that manner.

I put it forward as part of the obsession this Govt seems to have with quotas/statistics as a way of answering public queries/concerns.

Point 1. The matter was announced in National Papers, on the website and by some Government spkesman which puts it in the open forum for debate. Just beacuse someone makes a comment does not mean that the public has to agree with a policy - nor other politicians for that matter.

Point 2. This was a genuine question. Just because someone says we will have X amount by 2008 does not indicate how this will happen in practice. Also how will the percentages be defined? For the whole of the Armed Forces or by groups/Regts/Ships/Corps etc?

Point 3 The reference to Gloucester Police was deliberate. In autumn 2005 they realised they were not reaching the Home Office targets so they organised a recruiting drive. All female and ethnic applicants regardless of age or ability were given an interview. 150 applicants (some ex-servicemen) were turned down - all White - who are the racists?

Point 4. The Army has been voluntary since 1961 and is currently experiencing a critical manpower shortage - especially in the teeth arms and is more reliant on the TA. This is the matter that should be being addressed, not tinkering about with more targets to please some quango.

Point 5 The ref to Corps/Regts/Trades being full has already been practised by Local Govt when jobs have been earmarked for disabled or minority posts. If the post is not filled, they are left empty rather than employ someone who is not in that category to do the work - is that sensible? The Met Police need recruits but if you go on their site they say they are not recruiting - unless you are non-white. This has been reported in several London newspapers.

I find the whole issue of quotas anathema regardless of whom they are set for. It leads to those who join being viewed as '..if you weren't whatever you wouldn't have got the job/promotion/pay rise etc'. It was tried in NY and LA and failed miserably after about 5 years but by then the damage was done and the emnity remains.

I thought ARRSE was designed to air views/comments and judging by the language etc on some of the postings on the Forums there are some idiots who do write in with inflammatory and defammatory words which is why the site needs Policing.

What I do object to is being labelled a racist for making a legitimate observation. I have nowhere in my entry given encouragement to racist statements or behaviour - simply tried to air comments on a policy I feel is short sited. We still have free speech in this country, or so I thought.

Don't label me as a racist - you don't know me or of me - so keep your judgements to yourself.

As an aside my best mate in the Infantry was an Arab who went right through basic with me. I also have black/Asian and Chinese friends and colleagues.

It is this insiduous clamping down on discussion of topics deemed too sensitive that will lead to people voting BNP next week - and after the comments from you I can see why! 8O
 
#14
intli,
i have not removed any of your posts unless you have another user name!, it was another post, my fault for misunderstanding by not putting users name on my post.
so if you had followed the thread that you started and remember what you post you will find you have nothing to defend and maybe a retraction of your criticism of arrse might be in order for unfounded accusations

you also know nothing about me except i am a moderator of this forum.

i would have normally pm'd you my reply but as you saw fit to critisize me in public, i shall also repay that compliment to you. Think before you post next time. and make sure of your facts of who and why you are making criticisms.
 
#16
intli said:
Point 3 The reference to Gloucester Police was deliberate. In autumn 2005 they realised they were not reaching the Home Office targets so they organised a recruiting drive. All female and ethnic applicants regardless of age or ability were given an interview. 150 applicants (some ex-servicemen) were turned down - all White - who are the racists?
Glocester Police are racists and they are going to pay the price for it when they start handing out compensation (something Avon & Somerset police have already done for similar errors).

Gloucestershire Police could be the next force to face legal claims for positive discrimination in its recruitment practices, with failed applicants seeking legal advice and the local MP taking their case on, Personnel Today has learned.

Last week, Avon and Somerset Police paid out an undisclosed sum - thought to be in the region of £25,000 - to a male job applicant who was rejected because he was white. The force also scrapped its 'positive action' scheme, calling it "not appropriate", and offered all failed applicants the chance to re-apply for a job.

The Avon and Somerset force rejected 186 white applicants because its workforce was "over-represented by white men". It faces a bill of up to £4m if all those rejected on racial grounds come forward.

Now, Gloucestershire Police could face a similar bill if the 108 men who were "randomly deselected" from a recruitment drive bring claims. It was later revealed they were turned down in favour of ethnic minority candidates as the force struggled to hit diversity quotas set by the government.
http://www.personneltoday.com/Artic...ld+face+legal+claims+after+discrimination.htm

So there are no 'quotas'.... just 'targets'...

Tricam.
 
#17
Yeah CC, the way the thread reads is that Intli has submitted a racist post, which I can't see/read; I can kind of understand, having read your follow-up post that it wasn't Intli's post, but it's all a bit confusing if you've not been following the thread from the start.
 
#19
tricam said:
intli said:
Point 3 The reference to Gloucester Police was deliberate. In autumn 2005 they realised they were not reaching the Home Office targets so they organised a recruiting drive. All female and ethnic applicants regardless of age or ability were given an interview. 150 applicants (some ex-servicemen) were turned down - all White - who are the racists?
Glocester Police are racists and they are going to pay the price for it when they start handing out compensation (something Avon & Somerset police have already done for similar errors).

Gloucestershire Police could be the next force to face legal claims for positive discrimination in its recruitment practices, with failed applicants seeking legal advice and the local MP taking their case on, Personnel Today has learned.

Last week, Avon and Somerset Police paid out an undisclosed sum - thought to be in the region of £25,000 - to a male job applicant who was rejected because he was white. The force also scrapped its 'positive action' scheme, calling it "not appropriate", and offered all failed applicants the chance to re-apply for a job.

The Avon and Somerset force rejected 186 white applicants because its workforce was "over-represented by white men". It faces a bill of up to £4m if all those rejected on racial grounds come forward.

Now, Gloucestershire Police could face a similar bill if the 108 men who were "randomly deselected" from a recruitment drive bring claims. It was later revealed they were turned down in favour of ethnic minority candidates as the force struggled to hit diversity quotas set by the government.
http://www.personneltoday.com/Artic...ld+face+legal+claims+after+discrimination.htm

So there are no 'quotas'.... just 'targets'...

Tricam.
until proven in court they are alledged racists
 
#20
Can anyone post the required figures? I can only hope it is done on a national average rather than by capbadge. Scots Div have continually come under fire for this in the past and the standard reasons given back up the CoC for them failing yet again to recruit ethnic minorities were

1. there weren't that many of them in Scotland and

2. they didn't want to join.

I do seem to remember a story of a certain Bn 2IC a long time ago getting it in the neck from DInf when he proudly announced that the Bn had just recruited its first ever English Catholic officer ("not bad in 300+yrs"). Apparently DInf didn't see the funny side..... :lol:
 

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