Proposed changes to knife legislation

[A.N.Other]

The government have published proposed changes to legislation for consultation. This is in an effort to curb the use of weapons such as knives and acid.

Offensive and dangerous weapons: new legislation - GOV.UK

It looks like yet another populist knee jerk reaction by the government. They need to be seen "doing something", even if it will be ineffective in curbing knife crime, while at the same time putting people out of work and further restricting law abiding people.

This is being discussed on other forums:
ATTENTION - The End of Internet Knife Sales. One Handed Folders Made Illegal to Own.

Thoughts? Would you stand up against this? Would you contact your MP to challenge this?

 

[Oddbod]

It's pointless populist legislation aimed at garnering support from the slow of thinking.
Most of the knives shown in connection with crimes are of the cheap, kitchen variety. Banning one handed opening folders will likely have little if any effect on crime but inconvenience those like myself who use a pocket knife frequently.
What will they ban next - screwdrivers with blades longer than 3"? They are after all perfectly capable (more so than a BFO carving knife) of penetrating someone's ribcage.
None of this legislation will inconvenience or deter those intent on using knives in a criminal manner.
Using the legislation we currently have to bang 'em up for a good long time would be a far better option but I guess the government doesn't balance the reduction in the cost of crimes committed against the cost of increased prison places.

 

[vampireuk]

When you see all the junk turned in during a knife amnesty you don't see many legal to carry (with good reason) knives on display. It is big f*ck off kitchen knives and knives that are already illegal to carry but yet people carry them.

 

[oscar1whisky]

I just bought a nice sheath knife online, as the warehouse is selling them off cheap before any ban comes in.

Normal price 30 odd quid, sale £8 plus p&p, with courier delivery.

Pm for details

 

[Tedsson]

I honestly have no idea whether the knife I usually carry around when I am walking in the countryside is legal or otherwise.

I bought it in a walking/hiking/camping/outdoor shop in W Sussex and the bloke assured me it was legal.

It has a 7.62cm (stand easy some of you at that magic number) blade. It cannot be opened with one hand.

Yet no coppers (in the family) can tell me if this is legal! Or want to, possibly.

I stopped carrying it when I took it out of my pocket to open a sandwich at a zoo and Mrs T went apeshit (ho ho). (Zoo/ape - ah fack it, suit yourself).

Yet my spazzer walking stick has a sharply pointed ferrule on it, could easily kill someone if it hit the right place and is perfectly legal.

Confused of Hampshire

 

[Oddbod]

I honestly have no idea whether the knife I usually carry around when I am walking in the countryside is legal or otherwise.

I bought it in a walking/hiking/camping/outdoor shop in W Sussex and the bloke assured me it was legal.

It has a 7.62cm (stand easy some of you at that magic number) blade. It cannot be opened with one hand.

Yet no coppers (in the family) can tell me if this is legal! Or want to, possibly.

I stopped carrying it when I took it out of my pocket to open a sandwich at a zoo and Mrs T went apeshit (ho ho). (Zoo/ape - ah fack it, suit yourself).

Yet my spazzer walking stick has a sharply pointed ferrule on it, could easily kill someone if it hit the right place and is perfectly legal.

Confused of Hampshire

If the blade is under 3" & doesn't lock open, you're OK.
Over 3" &/or has a locking blade means you need to have "good reason" to be carrying it.
I'm blowed if I'm going to use a knife with a non locking blade, as I value my fingers. I can also open the one I use with one hand, which is helpful when dealing with recalcitrant packaging etc.
If the government want to make me into a criminal then so be it, not that doing so will in any way stop little sods from knifing each other.

 

[Old Stab]

This legislation will encompass Multi tools like a Leathermans.

I've been stopped by plod , just a routine traffic stop, got out of the car and the copper clocked my Leathermans on my belt and asked why I was carrying it as it had a blade on it. Luckily the fly fishing vest hanging up in the back of the car and the four fly rods explained that one.

If I hadn't had those in the car I can be pretty sure that he would have nicked me for carrying a blade.

 

[Boumer]

Police recorded violent crime has increased since 2014 and in the 12 months period ending March 2017, violent crime recorded by the police increased by 18 percent.

The Office for National Statistics have said some of this increase can be attributed to:

• improvements in how police forces record crime
• more victims of domestic violence being willing to come forward to the police
• the creation of new offences and greater awareness of these crimes

However, some of the increases in certain types of violent crime are thought to be genuine, including rises in offences involving knives and firearms.

Is that Home Office for "Oh f*ck, we can't sweep it under the carpet anymore".

Remind me who was Home Secretary for the past six years?

So despite 20,000 less cops since 2009..

And 40% drop in stop and search....

Stop and search: Theresa May announces reform of police stop and search - GOV.UK

Violence still might be genuinely up?

So with the less cops there are, and the lesson that stop and search must come down, can someone explain why pass new laws?

i Creating offences to prevent knives sold online being delivered to a private residential address, and ensuring the age and identity of the purchaser are checked. What that tick box option on ghe website when I bought my last Mora Frost?
ii. Making it an offence to possess certain weapons in private. You can commit affray in private otherwise you need a warrant to enter and seize, will power of warrant be included? Otherwise bit useless unless you are on premises already
iii. Introducing an offence of having an article with blade or point or offensive weapon on education institutions other than schools. Reforming or extended powers already in force, but fair enough..
iv. Amending the existing offences of threatening with an article with blade or point or offensive weapon. Again, probably illegal as possession of an offensive weapon or affray -which can be committed in private premises
v. Updating the definition of a flick knife Probably an offensive weapon anyway, so already ilegal

You can pass all the laws in the world, but if you don't have the cops and they have received the message for the past 7 years that they are filthy racists if they stop and search someone, it is a waste of time.

And who was responsible for the above two conclusions. Oops.

 

[Oddbod]

The Tories have pulled this crap before; pushing legislation with no resources to back it up but this latest lot goes beyond the pale.
Unfortunately, our two party, first past the post system means there's no realistic alternative, especially when one looks at the current Opposition.
Oh & tacked onto this headline stuff is a proposed ban on .50cal rifles & 'fast loading' rifles whateverthef**k that vaguely worded drivel means.
I know what it doesn't mean & that's any real action to address violent criminals.

And breathe....

 

[SWJ99]

More nanny state bullshit which will only inconvenience the law abiding. In the meantime, those who couldn't give a fcuk will continue slashing their way through the population in a similar way to how anyone intent on shooting people probably still has the means to do so, whether legally or otherwise.
Another example of the government pretending to do something important whilst actually being shit.

 

[A.N.Other]

The legislation goes beyond knives.

I understand that it will ban firearms such as .50 anti-materiel (sp?) rifles (because so many are used to knock off your local Ladbrookes) and "rapid fire" rifles of all kinds (although I don't think there is a clear definition of "rapid fire, the next attempt at semi-autos?). One for @Oddbod @ugly and other gun owners to consider?

It's also the much publicised legislation which places controls on the sale and carry of corrosive substances.

Oh yeah, back to knives, it will make it illegal to have any one hand opening knife at home. If the bans come in having a 50mm blade pen knife in your house becomes illegal. They want to extend bans to private residences.

How many of you out there are in to climbing, canoeing or other sports where you need a rescue knife which can be opened with on hand? I have one on my PFD. I also have two in my car, one is in my Mountain Rescue rucksack. The other in the driver's door pocket, as it is a vehicle rescue knife.

This legislation will criminalise thousands of law abiding people and be ignored by those who already are breaking the law.

Edited to add: oops, just saw Oddbod is already on this one

 

[A.N.Other]

This legislation will encompass Multi tools like a Leathermans.

I've been stopped by plod , just a routine traffic stop, got out of the car and the copper clocked my Leathermans on my belt and asked why I was carrying it as it had a blade on it. Luckily the fly fishing vest hanging up in the back of the car and the four fly rods explained that one.

If I hadn't had those in the car I can be pretty sure that he would have nicked me for carrying a blade.

A multi tool should be OK. I haven't found one yet I can open one handed!

If it didn't lock and the blade was less than 3"/74mm then there were no grounds for an arrest. Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 allows the carry of a folding knife with a blade of less than 3" in a public place without good reason. While case law of Harris VS DPP (1991?) restricted that right, in that lock knives were considered to be fixed blades when open and therefore not foldable at all times. This is despite the argument that the Hansard record of the Parliamentary debate on S139 specifically mentions that lock knives were intended to be allowed by S139. As this was not clearly stated in the legislation the judge was able to interpret the Act and set this precedent.

I know a few coppers and they have agreed that a multi-tool with a short blade is legal to carry. However, one said I would be arrested for "going equipped" to commit a crime. While another I spoke to said he would arras the anyone with any kind of blade regardless of size or type and "let the CPS sort it out.

Some coppers really are ba*****'s.

Edited to add Old Sab' s post for context

 

[Crash]

I have my para knife, which I, er, forgot to return when I was medically down graded. It's essentially a flick knife with a blade and a shroud cutter. Oh and it's bright, dayglo Orange! Presumably illegal?

 

[A.N.Other]

I have my para knife, which I, er, forgot to return when I was medically down graded. It's essentially a flick knife with a blade and a shroud cutter. Oh and it's bright, dayglo Orange! Presumably illegal?

If you press a button and it springs open then it probably would be classed as a flick knife, which is already prohibited under the Offensive Weapons Act 1959.

If it is assisted opening (you use a thumb stud to pull the blade out then a spring takes it the rest of the way) or the closed position is soft enough that you can open it one handed by pushing it with your thumb then that is currently legal to carry. This legislation will make it illegal to carry. More than that, it will be illegal to have one in your own home.

How many of us out there have old pen knives forgotten in the back of draws or in the bottom of an old kit bag or rucksack? In a few years time you would be arrested for this if, for example, you were burgled and the police found the knife when searching the crime scene for evidence.

This legislation is going way too far. It is populist bull**** which will criminalise the law abiding and be ignored by those already breaking the law. Yet more ineffective "think of the children" crap from a government ruled by the media and "optics" of the situation.

 

[Northern_Biff]

This legislation comes to you from the Home Secretary Bullshitness of Rudd and May.....two proven wets.

 

[Tired_Tech]

One handed folders?

So the sort of knife that many watersports enthusiasts find essential...

Brilliant.

Better idea. When a knife/acid user is caught send them down for decades (plural).

Better yet use eye for an eye.

They stab someone in the gut, stab them in the gut. They throw acid over someone, throw it over them.

I'm pretty sure it will soon get around that using knives and acid isn't big, clever or cool.

 

[flipflop]

They should ban handguns again.

 

[thegimp]

The legislation goes beyond knives.

I understand that it will ban firearms such as .50 anti-materiel (sp?) rifles (because so many are used to knock off your local Ladbrookes) and "rapid fire" rifles of all kinds (although I don't think there is a clear definition of "rapid fire, the next attempt at semi-autos?). One for @Oddbod @ugly and other gun owners to consider?

It's also the much publicised legislation which places controls on the sale and carry of corrosive substances.

Oh yeah, back to knives, it will make it illegal to have any one hand opening knife at home. If the bans come in having a 50mm blade pen knife in your house becomes illegal. They want to extend bans to private residences.

How many of you out there are in to climbing, canoeing or other sports where you need a rescue knife which can be opened with on hand? I have one on my PFD. I also have two in my car, one is in my Mountain Rescue rucksack. The other in the driver's door pocket, as it is a vehicle rescue knife.

This legislation will criminalise thousands of law abiding people and be ignored by those who already are breaking the law.

Edited to add: oops, just saw Oddbod is already on this one

I’ve got bucket loads of knives, work knives, rescue knives, diving knives, fishing knives, multi tools,machetes. I’ve even got a set of global chefs knives



Mainly collected in the search for the perfect knife for all occasions, the fact that at work a knife is a basic safety requirement and because i’m Just a Heinnie Hayes pervert.

I’m not sure what the numbers are for non scrote sensible, civilised people charged and found guilty of carrying an “uk non legal carry” knife are, especially when there are obvious good reasons to carry it and you aren’t fighting/delivering drugs/relieving people of their wallets

Context is everything i suspect

I’d have thought the numbers are quite small

My advice to any head choppers or psychopaths would be to get yourself a set of global knives for maximum efficiency. Insanely sharp things

 

[A.N.Other]

I’m not sure what the numbers are for non scrote sensible, civilised people charged and found guilty of carrying an “uk non legal carry” knife are, especially when there are obvious good reasons to carry it and you aren’t fighting/delivering drugs/relieving people of their wallets

I’d have thought the numbers are quite small

The number of convictions may be quite small now but even today an arrest by over enthusiastic/cautious copper can still have an impact.

You have to declare arrests when applying for a visa for the USA. That is arrests, not conviction. This could see you refused entry and have to visit the embassy in London for interview/approval. A time consuming and expensive process. Even worse if stopped at the arrivals gate and put on the next plane straight back home.

Arrests, Cautions, Convictions: Other potential ineligibilities
ESTA visa application rules: If you've got one of THESE you could be banned from the US

I have security clearance, renewal of which would require an explanation for any arrests. Should I lose my livelyhood because of an arrest with no conviction for something which is perfectly legal.

This will only get worse with the proposed changes.

 

[hellsbrink]

I’ve got bucket loads of knives, work knives, rescue knives, diving knives, fishing knives, multi tools,machetes. I’ve even got a set of global chefs knives



Mainly collected in the search for the perfect knife for all occasions, the fact that at work a knife is a basic safety requirement and because i’m Just a Heinnie Hayes pervert.

I’m not sure what the numbers are for non scrote sensible, civilised people charged and found guilty of carrying an “uk non legal carry” knife are, especially when there are obvious good reasons to carry it and you aren’t fighting/delivering drugs/relieving people of their wallets

Context is everything i suspect

I’d have thought the numbers are quite small

My advice to any head choppers or psychopaths would be to get yourself a set of global knives for maximum efficiency. Insanely sharp things

Think of those like me with work "safety" knives at home, ones which are the only type of stanley knife allowed on many sites now, one where you "flick" the knife to get the blade out and, once you put a "pulling" pressure on the blade, the "lock" unlatches and any release on the pressure means the blade retracts in a fraction of a second, the idea being that if your knife slipped when stripping a cable then the blade wouldn't slice through you. In practice, it didn't work because only a fool puts that much pressure on the blade in the first case.

Perfectly legitimate, and safe to use, knife, but can be classed as illegal now because of the action and will definitely be illegal under the new law. And that goes for the other 4 knives in one toolbag thanks to them mostly being single handed "opening" and/or there being a locking mechanism, which would be carried as different sites had different rules regarding knives (fixed blade, folding, stanley-type, self-retracting, "special").

If UK law applied here, I could, technically, be lifted purely because of these 5 knives, even though there is a perfectly legal use and reason for having for all of them, which shows the insanity that UK law has become.