Proper Officers! - merged rupert discussions

#21
I must echo A-E-O.

As I council-house bred whippet shagger, I always looked in awe upon the British Army Officer.

Nothing can ever replace those superb leadership traits, inbred, sorry, bred in over centuries of genetic manipulation.

Who else could project that absolute clarity and certainty in his decisions, despite what appears to be overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

The Army needs far more of this type of chap.

It was a sad day indeed when oiks with a third-class degree in Ethiopean Macrami from the University of Huddersfield were let loose upon Sandhurst.

These sad creatures have all the self-preening arrogance, but sadly none of the endearing traits of the true Rupert. (Should anyone doubt this, please type "Clooney" into your search engine).

Let's have more more of the aristocracy and less of the hoi-polloi.

That young Harry looks every inch the Officer, for example.
(In fact he looks a lot like a certain Rupert who shall remain nameless).
 
#22
Unknown_Quantity said:
I think that the image of the proper officer as a leader and a man of taste is important. I don't think class is important because backgrounds are becoming ever less important. What is important is honesty, tact and decency - all of which are qualities of the typical "good bloke", whatever the background. Speaking the Queens english with Trevor McDonalds accent is fine, but if the man is a tosser then so what.

I should clarify what I mean by "a man of taste". I mean a man that acts in a manner that inspires trust and confidence in them. This is why in my opinion the officers mess should maintain its standards of dress and service and why RMAS should continue to enforce and require the highest of standards. These standards all help to give the image of a trustworthy institution.
Yes quite right Unknown-Quantity! I will agree that the "man of taste" argument is good. I quite agree that how the man behaves, on and off duty, the selfless devotion to duty as an officer and gentleman is of utmost importance to inspire the trust, confidence and respect of the men. My argument is that these standards are being diluted because we now recruit from the parts of society that would previously not have considered joining the Army as an Officer. Many of them frighteningly competent I agree, but do they really believe in being officers. Do they have the moral courage and steel of an officer to lead men in battle and if necessary make decisions that cost lives.

How many understand the rules of croquet for example?
Are there still messes out there that allow their officers to box in the mess to settle disputes of honour?

I know this is a slightly controversial subject and humbly apologise to anyone I may have upset. I realise some of my arguments may be a touch extreme in this day and age and while I don’t really believe that all officers should come from the aristocracy, I do passionately believe in the standards of the Officer Corps being adhered to. What standards, whose standards?
Should standards of speech, dress, behaviour, styles of leadership, interests and sports now change because we select officers from a wider section of society than we used to? Or do we try and maintain the standards and strive to encourage the modern officer to become a proper officer with the proper standards of leadership, selfless devotion to duty, honesty, integrity, courage, behaviour, speech, dress and interests of an Officer and a Gentleman?
 
#23
tigger_c/s_30 said:
Well A-E-O, :lol: your last 2 posts have totally destroyed what respect I had for the way you had inputted to this thread , now I know what I am about to say will make not one bit of difference to you , however you are starting to now show your true colours, and the pretensious(sp) pr*ck that you are , oh and there is no need at all to get rid of the mess because upper class inbreds no longer dominate it . and my last thought this post is , if you think you can be taught how to lead without having any natural born talent for it think again, sadly that thats the kind of thinking that negates your argument , the system you cherish and so badly want back was full of non leaders who treated the military as a hobby and a means to climb the social ladder.
Dear dear Tigger! Such offensive name calling and so close to New Year! Could I first of all wish you the compliments of the season!!

I take it you are from a not very senior Corps!

Do you play croquet. (or at least understand the rules)?
Do you always stand up when a lady enters the room?
Do you consider casual dress to be a sports jacket, collar and tie?
Do you participate in any field sports? Game shooting, fly fishing, hunting?
Were you educated in a Public School?
Would you be prepared to lay down your life for your soldiers?

If any of the answers to the above are no, then you have probably participated in this site by mistake! It is for officers!
 
#24
Obvious piss take but here goes

Any officer who could jump, tab, dig in, patrol, tab and dig in again, give a set of orders and showed as much aggresion as his men when fighting was OK by me.

Anything less he was a cnut..........regardless of background. Pretty simple really
 
#25
jeremy said:
Ard-Elly-o said:
Proper officers, if I must explain, come from the right sort of background and are educated at one of the decent Public Schools.
They speak (naturally!) with a proper British accent (BBC English, pre 60s will suffice) and are quite simply the right class to be an officer in the British Army.
That's just what I said to Santa Sunday in the mess the other night, and he punched me. What's going on?

J
Top stuff Jeremy!! Bloody good to hear your mess still allows officers to box!! Well done old chap - nothing like a few bloody noses to liven up the mess. Should be more of it and soon sorts the men out from the boys (or girls)
 
#26
Eggbanjo said:
Obvious piss take but here goes

Any officer who could jump, tab, dig in, patrol, tab and dig in again, give a set of orders and showed as much aggresion as his men when fighting was OK by me.

Anything less he was a cnut..........regardless of background. Pretty simple really
Absolutely!! The supreme leader by example! Fitness, courage, agression, knowledge. He will gladly die for his men and likewise his men would die for him. Followed out of respect of his qualities as an officer. .....Still important he dresses properly though!
 
#27
Chuzu said:
seen as officers can get in with a levels i dont think rating degrees is neccessary
My point on education was really referring to the good Public Schools providing the standards of behaviour required of a true officer. Accept the point not to grade degrees.
 
#28
Finding someone who is an Officer and a Gentleman is as difficult as finding an AAC Pilot who can fly Straight and Level :D

But there are a few about :lol:
 
#29
Pangur_Ban said:
Unfortunately your criteria for entry into the 'proper officers' club still do not produce the calibre you speak about.

What IS the point of an expensive education /background when it still produces uncouth scum? Only the other day I had to watch a 'proper officer' (right school/plum/family mansion) eat soup at the mess. For goodness sake - he had NO idea how to eat his roll correctly! How vulgar! Do they not demand manners at Public School/Cavalry Messes anymore? And to be shown up by a mere pleb of a woman (sans school/plum/moathouse) like myself! He should be ashamed.

If you are going to insist that only 'proper officers' serve then do at least pull them up to scratch!
Terrible. But if you think that's bad, you should see how some Staffies eat Fish fingers in my Mess........shocking to say the least. Pass the brown sauce old boy!
 
#30
Ard-Elly-o said:
!!I take it you are from a not very senior Corps!

Do you play croquet. (or at least understand the rules)?
Do you always stand up when a lady enters the room?
Do you consider casual dress to be a sports jacket, collar and tie?
Do you participate in any field sports? Game shooting, fly fishing, hunting?
Were you educated in a Public School?
Would you be prepared to lay down your life for your soldiers?quote]

The answer to all the above is yes, except I do admit that my Regt (Corps) was not the most senior, far more capable than most senior ones though.
The difference though is quite simple, I did not rely on something my father left behind, a remarkable career and a reputation second to none, I chose a different route, and I do not regret it at all,made me a much better man.I put away the Rudyard Kipling books many many years ago and lived in the real world.


Allow me to return the compliments of the season to you and yours, and also wish you a very happy and prosperous new year.

I hope you find what your looking for .
 
#31
Elly
Either times and British society have sadly changed since my time at Mons or I suspect that there may be a number of young wags trying to pull your leg here!!

Even the Iraqi army recognised that breeeding and perhaps a proper education, would never be a prerequisite in the technical Corps. They are however essential if you wish to maintain any sort of decorum in an army.

The unpleasant emergence of the Fedayeen, as an offshoot of our defeated army shows a clear lack of proper education amongst our officer corps. Too many have never been to public school: some were even sent to technical college!! ( many of our teeth arm officers now prefer to wear slip-on shoes and button down collars when coming into Baghdad for the day!!)

Any decent officer corps would have recognised that this ongoing conflict in our country will do nothing for the polo season and I shudder to start to think about next year's Basra Regatta. It has been impossible to get Fortnums to deliver out here for months now. Life is becoming quite tiresome now.
Allah willing, at least some of us will still get to see the Brit Cav play Jordan again this summer. at least some institutuions endure!!
 
#32
mY Sir says says to present his compliments to all for a very Happy New Year. I'd write more, bur he's sitting on me at the moment (having offered his seat to a lady) and I has to put more champagne and cocaine on ice for the other sirs and maams.

Most 'umbly

Grownup_Bewares Man
 
#33
Pangur_Ban said:
Unfortunately your criteria for entry into the 'proper officers' club still do not produce the calibre you speak about.

What IS the point of an expensive education /background when it still produces uncouth scum? Only the other day I had to watch a 'proper officer' (right school/plum/family mansion) eat soup at the mess. For goodness sake - he had NO idea how to eat his roll correctly! How vulgar! Do they not demand manners at Public School/Cavalry Messes anymore? And to be shown up by a mere pleb of a woman (sans school/plum/moathouse) like myself! He should be ashamed.

If you are going to insist that only 'proper officers' serve then do at least pull them up to scratch!
Appalling PB!! Just the sort of thing that causes immense irritation, especially to those that have been brought up correctly. Using a knife to cut open a bread roll instead of breaking it open with the fingers! Spreading butter or preserve on to bread without putting it on the side of the plate first!!
It is excruciating to watch these poor fellows who lack the basics in table manners never mind the rest of their behaviour! If we are to accept "officers" from the lower orders then we must ensure they are thoroughly educated in table manners, standards of etiquette, dress and what is and is not acceptable. We can no longer assume they will know how to conduct themselves properly! What are adjutants doing in all of this??

My apologies dear lady for constantly referring to officers and gentlemen, and not including our lady officers. I am sure things are even more difficult for you who are expected to conduct yourselves as officers and leaders of men one minute, and then be demure ladies in the mess! It really is all very confusing and I am not sure where it will all end up!

I am also sure you are anything but a plebeian!
 
#34
Thank God I remembered where I'd left my specs. For a minute there I thought you'd said lesbian.
 
#35
i don't think i need to explain my view point on this thread. It is something i have been trying to promote for a long time.

A-E-O please do continue your crusade for breeding, background and (by default) etiquette and manners.

The British Army Officer is an elite individual and anything (and by that i mean anyone that has ever lived in a terraced house, attended a comprehensive school or smothers their food on tomato ketchup) that waters down that standing is utterly, utterly wrong.

i certainly hope that when i get to Sandhurst there are no common types i might have to speak with.

ClG
 
#36
being a cadet iv worked with cadets in the CCF on courses. i must say what a complete and utter bunch of wan*ers!!! not all but a huge majority could not find their way out of a sack!!! stuck up, bone idle, lots of good education, but shite all common sense!!!

if this is where you want officers to come from god help you, he's leading you into battle not me! i see them from an early age and what i do see is rather perfetic! on my leadership course some stuck up p#ick from eaton couldn't even use a compass, how many stripes? none it was a crown! cadet CSM could not even use a compass!!!

you could be the cleverest fcuk*r in the world but you might come from a poor background where you won't get into a good public school. does this mean that they should be held back? nope. its the person, not the certificates, class and clothes that man/woman has, comes from or wears.
 
#37
junior_RLC said:
being a cadet iv worked with cadets in the CCF on courses. i must say what a complete and utter bunch of wan*ers!!! not all but a huge majority could not find their way out of a sack!!! stuck up, bone idle, lots of good education, but shite all common sense!!!

if this is where you want officers to come from god help you, he's leading you into battle not me! i see them from an early age and what i do see is rather perfetic! on my leadership course some stuck up p#ick from eaton couldn't even use a compass, how many stripes? none it was a crown! cadet CSM could not even use a compass!!!

you could be the cleverest fcuk*r in the world but you might come from a poor background where you won't get into a good public school. does this mean that they should be held back? nope. its the person, not the certificates, class and clothes that man/woman has, comes from or wears.
Well, there you have it ladies & gentlemen. Cadet Sgt Majors who can't use compasses. What is the world coming to?

(PS. It's spelt E T O N and P A T H E T I C)
 
#38
How are you defining a proper officer? The stupid c**t who came from Oxford and joined a fine Regiment because thats what his daddy did, and who hasn't got a fu*king clue about his profession or how his HEAT round kills an enemy tank??? But by golly he has a plum accent and talks upper class bollockc in the mess?

Or is it the educated scum, who joins :twisted: a (for example) the REME, after getting a good Engineering degree and fuly understands his profession. He can't (and f**king) won't talk false upper class bollocks in the mess or start wearing red cords, brown shoes and a barber jacket (which by the way makes you look like a complete co*k to everyone else)!

I wonder which officer will perform better in the next Op TELIC?
 
#39
You may not have noticed, particularly if you're in a fine regiment and have been self extracted from the real world since passing RCB, but.....
No-one in civi street gives a f**k if you're an Army Officer or not, and certainly does'nt give a Flying F**k whether you're in the RLC or the 1st Regiment of Royal Horse Shaggerso . WAKE UP people its not the 1940s anymore.

You should concentrate on doing you're job well and not on what colour cords you wear or which school you went to. All that means F**K in on the both the battlesfield and to the normal people in civi land.
:evil:
 
#40
Well, I couldn't believe your first post, I thought it had to be a joke (the Raj is dead by the way).

You hark about a time when being an officer was about status and little more. It is now, rightly, about being good at your job and being a true leader in the finest Army in the world.

I had the honour to serve with an fine infantry Regiment on ops and there are some of the types, very obviously like you, who treat the Army as something to increase their personal standing with daddy and other Londonites. The best officers there were the ones who were absolutely not like that.

Basically, what you fail to miss, is that if I spoke to your Sgt, he would tell me the men think you're a cock and that you are not a good officer. Not because you drink Pimms without a finger raised but because you're completely out of touch with the men and worse, you're probably not very good at your job....which is obviously either Recce or Infantry.


The Army is here to do a job, not provide you with privilege. You're here to provide the men with the leadership and tactical ability that you should be bringing to the party. THAT IS WHY YOU ARE COMMISSIONED, not to go to drinks parties and tell each other how posh you are. So what you should ask is.....how do we get the best officers? You assume that being posh makes a difference. Yes it does it does. It usually makes you a poor officer in the ways that matter.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top