Propeller danger zone on the inside of aircraft fuselage?

#41
So that ground crew are reminded of where the prop arc is for one reason.
A young lad joined a handling company in Dublin Airport a few years ago and was killed on his first night shift, when he walked into the propellor of a HS 748. They reckoned later that he had approached from edge on, to put chocks in, and didnt see the prop. The very fine pitch of the 748's prop on the ground is very hard to see in poor light, despite it being a well-lit ramp.
 
#42
Not a propellor, but a Vulcan shed an entire turbine compressor disc which cut into the fuselage like a circular saw, severing the controls. The pilot only ejected after the aircraft had rolled more than 90 degrees and survived only because his un-inflated parachute snagged a power line and fused to it, lowering him gently to the ground; the luckiest lucky sod in the universe. The turbine disc wasn't found.

Does anyone remember my Dad? 'Vulcan Bomber' - PPRuNe Forums

Modern passenger jets usually use high-bypass turbofans, the engine casing should contain all the shrapnel if the rotating parts break free.
There was a female passenger killed just last year in the US by turbine fragment coming in through the fuselage.
 
#43
Just to give an idea of the energy involved in a disc seperation, I used to work on industrial turbines, many of which are aircraft engine based and I saw two shed blades in test cells. In both cases, the violence of the departure and subsequent imbalance tore the engines off their mounts and bent the main compressor rotor and the casings and threw off external piping and shearing every bolt. Every single blade in both engines were ruined and nothing could be salvaged from what remained. We were glad of the triple glazing of the control room and the "burst" shook the whole building, and observers outside said that it sounded like a bomb going off. Ultimately, both were traced to microscopic failures in the blade roots.
 
#44
A young lad joined a handling company in Dublin Airport a few years ago and was killed on his first night shift, when he walked into the propellor of a HS 748. They reckoned later that he had approached from edge on, to put chocks in, and didnt see the prop. The very fine pitch of the 748's prop on the ground is very hard to see in poor light, despite it being a well-lit ramp.
On KA’s my standard practice is to turn the prop so it’s sits like an X rather than a + as to avoid hitting it as I service the PT6. It may not be running, but working on the ramp at night with low light, those blades are just a thin line that disappear in the darkness and I had the pleasure of getting one in the face a few times, thus I adopted my blade position policy.
 
#45
There's an interesting photo of a DC3 minus propeller at Zephyrhills in one of Andy Keech's books. Skies Call 2, page 83
 
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#48
Not a propellor, but a Vulcan shed an entire turbine compressor disc which cut into the fuselage like a circular saw, severing the controls. The pilot only ejected after the aircraft had rolled more than 90 degrees and survived only because his un-inflated parachute snagged a power line and fused to it, lowering him gently to the ground; the luckiest lucky sod in the universe. The turbine disc wasn't found.

Does anyone remember my Dad? 'Vulcan Bomber' - PPRuNe Forums

Modern passenger jets usually use high-bypass turbofans, the engine casing should contain all the shrapnel if the rotating parts break free.
I remember that nav, he was my next door neighbour. I can still remember him playing with his daughter in their garden. If I remember rightly the co-pilot ejected and suffered injuries, the rear crew stood no chance as the jet was too low for them to get out.
Such engine failures happened a bit too often, fortunately not always with such tragic results.
Onetap your post certainly woke me up, there aren't too many things that I can remember that well from that time period, but that does stick in my mind.
 
#49
Not quite a propeller coming lose, but it did grab our attention. On a flight in the Dragon Rapide* in Weston on the Green, we were climbing to altitude, I think we were headed to about 8000ft having booted out a stude at 2500ft. All of a sudden there was a loudish bang from I think the port engine, followed by the sound of it winding down. I think that there were 3 of us left in the aircraft, plus the driver up front, a Polish bloke, one of the RAFs left overs so to speak of WWII. Following the WTF moment we headed to the door at warp speed in order to get out before it piled in. We had frequently made jokes about this ancient flying machine and just how much longer it would keep flying. Now was the moment we thought. Having exited we were treated to the sight of the Rapide in a steep descent. I at least was somewhat surprised that it landed safely and taxied in towards the hangar. I think the pilot was also a bit relieved as well. Unfortunately also a bit p1ssed off. Apparently he had quickly realised what the problem was and turned round to tell us that everything was in fact all right, and discovered that he was talking to himself. Not happy, it took much pleading, cajoling and offering of bribes and offers of sacrificing of virgins (if any could have been found) before he agreed to fly again.
What was the problem? The prop boss had come adrift and bounced off the wing, no big deal really though that is not what we thought at the time.

Dragon Rapide, a twin engined bi-plane lovingly referred to a the Slowpide. I can still remember the placard in the cockpit stating that the single engine ceiling was 2500ft. Not too reassuring.
 
#50
I remember that nav, he was my next door neighbour. I can still remember him playing with his daughter in their garden. If I remember rightly the co-pilot ejected and suffered injuries, the rear crew stood no chance as the jet was too low for them to get out.
Such engine failures happened a bit too often, fortunately not always with such tragic results.
Onetap your post certainly woke me up, there aren't too many things that I can remember that well from that time period, but that does stick in my mind.
Funnily enough, I just finished watching "The Last Flight Of The Vulcan Bomber" about XH558 retiring. They showed how the rear crew was supposed to leave the bomber in an emergency. I can understand why the rear crew in this particular flight didn't stand a chance.

With what they had to go through, quite frankly I'm suprised they didn't change SOP to "Put head between legs, kiss arse goodbye"
 
#51
Saw a C207 that shed the prop with a chunk dinged out of the wingtip as it departed. The bloke flying did comment on the excellent glide characteristics without all that drag from a windmilling prop though...
Glad the bloke survived but a pity the prop didn't trash the C207. I don't think I ever flew such a heap of rubbish in my life as the C207 and I suspect the handling would be far better without a prop - it certainly couldn't make it worse.

Not a propellor, but a Vulcan shed an entire turbine compressor disc which cut into the fuselage like a circular saw, severing the controls. The pilot only ejected after the aircraft had rolled more than 90 degrees and survived only because his un-inflated parachute snagged a power line and fused to it, lowering him gently to the ground; the luckiest lucky sod in the universe. The turbine disc wasn't found.
QF32 was a QANTAS A380 out of Singapore for Sydney when shortly after takeoff it shed a turbine disc (the bit that holds all the blades) as shrapnel putting something in excess of 300 holes in the wing and fuselage, knocking out all the engine controls to numbers 1 (the failed one) and 2, puncturing the fuel tank and causing over 150 failure messages to flood the cockpit screens. The failure was caused by a dodgy oil pipe that carried oil to the disc. The lack of oil caused the disc to overheat which led to a fire causing the disc to fracture and shatter leading to the unconfined engine failure.

If anyone needs convincing on the capabilities of a well trained crew have a look at this incident - there happened to be 5 pilots on the flight deck that day as the captain was undergoing a flight check by a trainee check captain who was himself being checked in the role. In addition there were the first and second officers. All of them were given assigned a role in getting the aircraft back on the ground safely - an aircraft that was rapidly becoming unbalanced and due to fuel loss on one side and would require an emergency overweight landing before the unbalance became too large to be controllable. It makes fascinating reading.
 
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#52
QF32 was a QANTAS A380 out of Singapore for Sydney when shortly after takeoff it shed a turbine disc (the bit that holds all the blades) as shrapnel putting something in excess of 300 holes in the wing and fuselage, knocking out all the engine controls to numbers 1 (the failed one) and 2, puncturing the fuel tank and causing over 150 failure messages to flood the cockpit screens. The failure was caused by a dodgy oil pipe that carried oil to the disc. The lack of oil caused the disc to overheat which led to a fire causing the disc to fracture and shatter leading to the unconfined engine failure.

If anyone needs convincing on the capabilities of a well trained crew have a look at this incident - there happened to be 5 pilots on the flight deck that day as the captain was undergoing a flight check by a trainee check captain who was himself being checked in the role. In addition there were the first and second officers. All of them were given assigned a role in getting the aircraft back on the ground safely - an aircraft that was rapidly becoming unbalanced and due to fuel loss on one side and would require an emergency overweight landing before the unbalance became too large to be controllable. It makes fascinating reading.
Or you can watch it here

 
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#53
Flying around Afghanistan last year we were on our way to Bastion. About 20 mins from landing and i am listening to my headphones, eyes closed. Suddenly the plane got seriously cold very quickly and looking around bits of rubbish flying around. Now of course i still had my headphones on so it wasnt apparent what was going on but there was commotion behind me (i was sitting in the centre seats facing port). As i and everyone else turned around the reason for the cold and now noise was the emergency exit hatch had come open.....see below.
Picture1.jpg

What i saw was 2 guys trying to hold onto the hatch which due to resistance was not allowing them to place it back in the now big hole! All i could see was the big **** off spinning propellor as you can see below thinking that if the hatch did go out of the hole then the propellors would of probably come off worse.
Picture1.jpg

The issue was even the crew at the back didnt immediately realise what was going on. I went up to the cockpit and shouted to the crew there. Once they realised that there was a bit of a issue we dropped quite rapidly and got the hatch back on. It turned out that guys had patrol sacks and the like in that area and a strap had got caught in the handles, causing it to come loose.
If you look at the top picture you can see red line marks that signify where the propellors are in relation to the outside.
 
#54
C207 is OK. Just needs finger out when loading. Bit gutless for the size but does the job for longer loads.

I was on a load dangling out the door on a night demo when it stalled. We got flicked off and I collected a boot in the grid. Had a little nap for a few seconds and woke up still falling, pulled the main and landed in the display area covered in blood from a bleeding lip and hooter. Don't remember the exit and stall at all but gathered what had happened from the rest of the guys. No idea who hoofed me. They reckon watching the aircraft pass the falling mob in a nose down attitude was quite exciting but I missed that bit.

We were bloody stupid back then.
 
#55
The last place I worked I spent some time flying on Fairchild Metroliners. If you get either of the front seats you find yourself looking at the spinning prop right outside the window.

Back in the 80s, I talked with a guy from Boeing in a section called AOG (Airplane On Ground). They had been in China looking into a crash caused when a Chinese fighter landed on the wing of a jet. As the engine came apart one of the turbine blade slashed through the cabin narrowly missing a passenger. When they went to interview him, they found him in the bar toasting his luck. Fortunately, the only casualty was the fighter pilot.
 
#56
If anyone needs convincing on the capabilities of a well trained crew have a look at this incident - there happened to be 5 pilots on the flight deck that day as the captain was undergoing a flight check by a trainee check captain who was himself being checked in the role. In addition there were the first and second officers. All of them were given assigned a role in getting the aircraft back on the ground safely - an aircraft that was rapidly becoming unbalanced and due to fuel loss on one side and would require an emergency overweight landing before the unbalance became too large to be controllable. It makes fascinating reading.
There was a documentary on German TV around 2 years ago concerning that incident. I've watched it twice. The crew certainly did a very good job under very difficult circumstances.
 
#57
United Airlines Flight 232 was a DC10 which threw its rear turbine, severing all three hydraulic systems. The crew got it down on the deck, unfortunately there were fatalities, but a number survived. The link shows the crew kept their composure and sense of humour as they tried to land the crippled aircraft.

The aircraft was not fitted with hydraulic fuses, which in the event of a pipe rupture stop any flow downstream.

United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia

RP.
 
#58
C207 is OK. Just needs finger out when loading. Bit gutless for the size but does the job for longer loads.

I was on a load dangling out the door on a night demo when it stalled. We got flicked off and I collected a boot in the grid. Had a little nap for a few seconds and woke up still falling, pulled the main and landed in the display area covered in blood from a bleeding lip and hooter. Don't remember the exit and stall at all but gathered what had happened from the rest of the guys. No idea who hoofed me. They reckon watching the aircraft pass the falling mob in a nose down attitude was quite exciting but I missed that bit.

We were bloody stupid back then.
A friend of mine worked on the C207 and similar in Northern Canada; the 207 was known as the "crowd-killer" as they were often used to fly local indigenous around, many of whom liked a sup or whisky or two and several crashed from being overloaded, out of trim or because, in one case, a drunken local grabbed the control column and tried to fly the aircraft, which didnt work out well. The Metroliner was known as the "Texas death Sled"..........I flew parachuting flights in 182s, 206s and Airvans and I am firmly convinced that all parachutist are howlers :)
 
#59
for info, a very good read is the accident report on a 748 that had a turbine self destruct when taking off at Stansted, many moons ago, with a famous football team aboard. The Captain saved the day....dig it up and enjoy it.
 
#60
I flew parachuting flights in 182s, 206s and Airvans and I am firmly convinced that all parachutist are howlers :)
Must be. Why else would you want to throw yourself out of a perfectly good aircraft. 8O

If you look at the top picture you can see red line marks that signify where the propellors are in relation to the outside.
I beg to differ. If you look at the bottom photo (the external shot) you will see that the emergency door is ahead of the line indicating the propeller arc. The red markings internally are just to let you know where that emergency hatch is. If you need further convincing, think about it for a minute and ask why would they place an emergency hatch in the arc of a propeller? :???:
 
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