Promotions

#1
This will open up a can of worms.....
Having just looked at previous promotion lists of SSgts and below, I was quite disturbed at the amount of Fag Ops getting promoted on the Dvr list.
Does this mean that there are lots of vacancies for Dvrs and not enough Dvrs to fill them.

Scenario
Cpl Sect Comd out in Iraq. On task with Eight Drops each has two pax inside and various expensive dangerous loads strapped to their vehs.....High risk/ High Responsibility.

Cpl Sect Comd (Rad Op) in Iraq IC sect of Three pax, Doesnt go out on detail and when does is in back of FFR (ok has high risk as we all do out in Iraq) Low Responsiblity.

1st Cpl responsible for safe delivery of battle winning eqpt. No eqpt delivered..... well I hate to think of the consequences

2nd Cpl responsible for comms. Loss of Comms........ who cares it happens all the time in dead zones, get out the sat phone or mobile.
Discussion Point

Why should Fag Ops be Promoted on the Dvr Board?
Why should they get Higher rate of pay?
 
#2
jonny_bored_bollox said:
This will open up a can of worms.....
Having just looked at previous promotion lists of SSgts and below, I was quite disturbed at the amount of Fag Ops getting promoted on the Dvr list.
Does this mean that there are lots of vacancies for Dvrs and not enough Dvrs to fill them.

Scenario
Cpl Sect Comd out in Iraq. On task with Eight Drops each has two pax inside and various expensive dangerous loads strapped to their vehs.....High risk/ High Responsibility.

Cpl Sect Comd (Rad Op) in Iraq IC sect of Three pax, Doesnt go out on detail and when does is in back of FFR (ok has high risk as we all do out in Iraq) Low Responsiblity.

1st Cpl responsible for safe delivery of battle winning eqpt. No eqpt delivered..... well I hate to think of the consequences

2nd Cpl responsible for comms. Loss of Comms........ who cares it happens all the time in dead zones, get out the sat phone or mobile.
Discussion Point

Why should Fag Ops be Promoted on the Dvr Board?
Why should they get Higher rate of pay?
Are you a "Fag Op" (I take it that is a Rad Op)

They get higher rates of pay because they have more responsibility, in terms of management and techncial ability.

If a Rad Op is exposed to the same amount of risk as anyone else (as you mention yourself), then why mention risk for anyone else. it is nullified.

Not quite sure what you are driving at, but I take it that it is something to do with the administrative management and cross polynation of the Driver and Driver/Rad Op CEG. Why are you concerened? If you are in the command structure then you should make active representations to change the status quo, if not then you should transfer, if neither is applicable then I cannot see the basis which forms neither your opinion or complaint.

Not meant to be a dig at you, more an attempt to clarify in my own mind the point that you are making.
 
#3
Because we are very special people... we can do your job blah, blah blah...and no it won't open a can of worms because Dvrs are the only ones bothered about it.
 
#4
How does a Rad Op have "more responsibility in terms of management". At most he manages a Radio Store or as a SNCO a Troop (but looses Higher Rate of Pay which I dont understand why).
A Tpt Sect Comd manages up to eight prime movers, eight trailers and other pieces of eqpt and upto sixteen pax if a vehicle isnt serviced correctly it will stop working and possibly cause an accident or worse.

Technical ability, I dont think so, square pegs fit in square holes, you connect a radio to an antenna and power source plug in a hand set and talk, whats technical about that. I can fix cars and trucks, build computers, install stereos and satelite TV thats all technical, but most of us can do that. Bowman's just a glorified PC/ Laptop Internet connection come GPS, most children are brought up on computers these days.

I added the "risk" thing because I some are at more risk than others. I didnt want to belittle the good job that people are doing on tour and say that no-one has risk. Dvrs got out of camp day in day out not sit in a comfy HQ rad det or rad store.

Sorry I just dont think its justified Rad Ops getting higher rates of pay or being promoted on our Boards.
( Im must be going soft I havnt used the term Fag Op on this reply)
 
#5
Told you they are the only ones bothered about it!
 
#6
dpm, instead of just being an arrogant, self important excuse maker (sun spots, water table, moon state, drip drip drip....) why don't you explain to JBB why it is that you get looked at on two boards. why can you not just compete against your fellow tradesman for promotion? why should dvrs have to put up with a rad op full screw as sect comd who has more skill fade than a captain on the parade square?

i'm not saying the promotion board or higher pay is wrong or right, i'd just like to know your opinion (if you have one) on JBB's post and not hear about how great you think you are. i bet you're not as good as you think you are.
 
#7
jonny_bored_bollox said:
How does a Rad Op have "more responsibility in terms of management". At most he manages a Radio Store or as a SNCO a Troop (but looses Higher Rate of Pay which I dont understand why).
A Tpt Sect Comd manages up to eight prime movers, eight trailers and other pieces of eqpt and upto sixteen pax if a vehicle isnt serviced correctly it will stop working and possibly cause an accident or worse.

Technical ability, I dont think so, square pegs fit in square holes, you connect a radio to an antenna and power source plug in a hand set and talk, whats technical about that. I can fix cars and trucks, build computers, install stereos and satelite TV thats all technical, but most of us can do that. Bowman's just a glorified PC/ Laptop Internet connection come GPS, most children are brought up on computers these days.

I added the "risk" thing because I some are at more risk than others. I didnt want to belittle the good job that people are doing on tour and say that no-one has risk. Dvrs got out of camp day in day out not sit in a comfy HQ rad det or rad store.

Sorry I just dont think its justified Rad Ops getting higher rates of pay or being promoted on our Boards.
( Im must be going soft I havnt used the term Fag Op on this reply)
How does a Rad Op have more responsbility? On a case by case basis, I have absolutely no idea, and I agree that there will always be individual circumstances that will "blow out of the water" any argument that anyone can postulate. However, taking the generalist view, a Driver/Rad Op is a driver who can operate a radio (I appreciate this is an oversimplification), however a Driver, is a driver who cannot operate a Radio (again the oversimplification - I will not apologise for, this is how it is interpreted). Whether you, me, the Driver CEG or anyone else agrees or disagrees, is a matter for them and not for the trade managers.

The Rad Op knows more and gets paid for it. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant insofar as the categorisation in terms of the appropriation of funds for their wages is concerned.

Your comments in terms of the technical ability, may or may not be true. It simply does not matter, the Driver Rad Op CEG has an element of technical ability that can be objectively justified as being over and above that of a Driver. Again, that is not to say that a Driver could not do a Driver/Rad Op's job, he is just not required to demonstrate it, therefore does not receive the pay.
 
#8
Sammy The Cat said:
jonny_bored_bollox said:
How does a Rad Op have "more responsibility in terms of management". At most he manages a Radio Store or as a SNCO a Troop (but looses Higher Rate of Pay which I dont understand why).
A Tpt Sect Comd manages up to eight prime movers, eight trailers and other pieces of eqpt and upto sixteen pax if a vehicle isnt serviced correctly it will stop working and possibly cause an accident or worse.

Technical ability, I dont think so, square pegs fit in square holes, you connect a radio to an antenna and power source plug in a hand set and talk, whats technical about that. I can fix cars and trucks, build computers, install stereos and satelite TV thats all technical, but most of us can do that. Bowman's just a glorified PC/ Laptop Internet connection come GPS, most children are brought up on computers these days.

I added the "risk" thing because I some are at more risk than others. I didnt want to belittle the good job that people are doing on tour and say that no-one has risk. Dvrs got out of camp day in day out not sit in a comfy HQ rad det or rad store.

Sorry I just dont think its justified Rad Ops getting higher rates of pay or being promoted on our Boards.
( Im must be going soft I havnt used the term Fag Op on this reply)
How does a Rad Op have more responsbility? On a case by case basis, I have absolutely no idea, and I agree that there will always be individual circumstances that will "blow out of the water" any argument that anyone can postulate. However, taking the generalist view, a Driver/Rad Op is a driver who can operate a radio (I appreciate this is an oversimplification), however a Driver, is a driver who cannot operate a Radio (again the oversimplification - I will not apologise for, this is how it is interpreted). Whether you, me, the Driver CEG or anyone else agrees or disagrees, is a matter for them and not for the trade managers.

The Rad Op knows more and gets paid for it. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant insofar as the categorisation in terms of the appropriation of funds for their wages is concerned.

Your comments in terms of the technical ability, may or may not be true. It simply does not matter, the Driver Rad Op CEG has an element of technical ability that can be objectively justified as being over and above that of a Driver. Again, that is not to say that a Driver could not do a Driver/Rad Op's job, he is just not required to demonstrate it, therefore does not receive the pay.
You must be a driver then...!
 
#10
Not you Sammy, happy harry Bitte!
 
#11
dpm, alas no, i am not a driver. i couldn't really care less about dvr/rad op promotion boards and was merely trying to elicit some debate from you (as a rad op) rather than becoming increasingly bored with your one dimensional trog baiting.
 
#12
Would that be the technically chalenging press and go 'drops'. The simple fact is we are dual traded so we have shown profesional compitence in both the Dvr Trade and Radio Trade. lets be honest now a B1 Dvr course (3 weeks)is an attendance course compared to the Advanced Signaller/B1 RadOp(5 weeks). If a Dvr RadOp wishes to improve his/her employability then good for them. If the JESJET team decide that the RadOp his on high band whilst the Dvr is low band its not my fault, but I do know what pay band I would and anybody else in their right mind would rather be on. The simple fact is we (RadOps) are on high band whilst Dvrs are low band (except WO2-WO1). If you dont like it then put your money where your mouth is and do the Basic/Advance Signaller, but be warned its not an attendance course.
 
#13
Whats wrong with One Dimensional Trog Baiting? The trog at the top obviously felt the need to call us Fag Ops instead of our correct title which is " Driver/Radio Operator". Which now leads me to my point. The reason we get to sit on both boards is due to the fact that we are qualified and quite capable of taking a section of push and go drops with trailers out for a spin! We are quite capable (as seniors) of commanding a Trog Troop! However put the shoe on the other foot. Could a driver come write a comms plan? could a driver command, set up, operate and maintain a communications installation? Johnny do you seriously think that a Radio Operator simply drives up to one of those millions of Military Antennas (you see scattered all over the world) and just plugs his/her radio into it, then connects a handset and talks. Seriously Im not sure where you got your information but it honestly is not quite as simple as that. I really am not trying to raise a bite from you, some of my best friends are trogs and yes I get this very same argument from them all the time. However they do not seem to be a naive as you seem, with regard to our job! Which now leads me to the Moral of the story.. Dont talk about subjects without firstly getting all the relevant and correct information.. God I say this to our Pte soldiers all the time!!!
 
#14
And......we are the only trade within the corps that demands that we pass an instructional trade course before promotion to Sgt. Plus if we stay true to the flags our current ceilling is only WO2 - Equal Opportunities, I think not!
 
#15
At the end of the day the Fag Op trade is a lot more technical than the Dvr trade so they should quite obviously, IMOH, be paid more than us, however I believe that they should only be able to gain promotion on their own board. If they are promoted on the Dvr role then they should be given a dvr post at that rank and paid accordingly.
 
#16
If a Dvr RadOp is selected on the Dvr board he/she then fills a flatliners slot in what ever unit, as for being paid accordingly, they cant even sort out people pay now so changing the pay band every 3 years will be a nightmare, especialy with the introduction of JPA.
 
#17
Marky5503 said:
Seriously Im not sure where you got your information but it honestly is not quite as simple as that.
That's quite possibly my fault. JJB was one of my Sect Comds before I moved to my current job, and guess what, I still look after him in his unique job. If they want to know why our juniors earn so much, we simply tell them all we do is put up AERIALS all day and do nothing. Trog Baiting is great, especially when you get promoted on their board and have to work with them in a Dvr Troop. They all gang up on you so we just tell them how easy our job is, before telling them to get out my office and go and grease the LORRIES up.

Am I evil? :twisted:
 
#19
rockdj99uk said:
At the end of the day the Fag Op trade is a lot more technical than the Dvr trade so they should quite obviously, IMOH, be paid more than us, however I believe that they should only be able to gain promotion on their own board. If they are promoted on the Dvr role then they should be given a dvr post at that rank and paid accordingly.
The reason MCM div call the threshold on a board the quality line is because that’s what it seeks to promote - quality. I feel that Commanders at all levels should be the best people; who will naturally be adaptable. The Dvr role is particularly varied (medics, handbaggers, fuelies) and so any lack of experience that a Dvr/RadOp may have on assuming a Dvr 110 LSN is no different to that which happens to Dvrs who change role.
 
#20
Listen Dr Evil!!!!! Anybody can put Aerials up I do it every day when I listen to my car stereo.

Anyway BIB surely a Bowman Trained RSI SNCO should know its not an Aerial its an ANTENNA, Ha Fag ops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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