Promotions Board

#1
Can anyone tell me how long after the Promotions board meets to make it's decision, does this get told to those selected for promotion?

Is there a timescale or does it largely depend on the unit?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#6
Back to sensible answers - If your unit has any sense at all they will not confirm the promotion until it has been ratified by Glasgow. How long that takes is anyones guess.
 
#9
All TA regts are mandated under TA Regs 1978 to hold at least one promotion board per rank every year (some do more), although a specific time of year is not mandated. Many units find it helpful to conduct the board whilst on annual camp. The report books (which contain all SJARs held on the soldier) for all eligible personnel will be sent to the Adjt or Chief Clerk a week or two before the date of the board for staff checking so that there are no surprises on the day. Eligibility is regimental/trade/rank specific. There is no one size fits everyone document for this, but your PSAOs will know as they will have received a calling notice, which explains them in detail.

The board must consist of a mix of regular and TA personnel and will usually (but not exclusively) consist of 5 marking members (BCs/QM/QM(T)/RSM/ROSO/RAO) one of whom must be the CO as President. One of the marking members must be "independent of the chain of Command" but we took this to mean the 2 i/c as he didn't have a vested interest in any particular promotion as he didn't write any/many of the reports.

Report books of each soldier (one rank at a time) are then circulated and scored in accordance with the criteria that is briefed by the secretary (usually the Adjt) before the start of the board. Scores (out of 10) are then read out at the end of the scoring phase, with the CO giving his score last in order to ensure his decision does not influence anyone else's score. Once scoring is complete for all ranks and the results submitted to the secretary, (s)he will collect all paperwork from all scoring members as this information is sensitive (the CO may choose to keep his scoresheets for reference). Each rank group is then placed in order of merit by score and the quality and promotion lines drawn onto the table.
The promotion line is normally drawn at 25; so all those scoring 25 out of 50 or above will be considered of requisite quality for promotion. However, if there are more people above the quality line than there are spaces to promote into, then a quantity line must be drawn. E.g. if there are 8 LCpls score above 25, but there are only 6 Cpls slots, the top 6 are selected for promotion and the quantity line is drawn beneath the score of the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] soldier. This is for staff checking at APC as much as anything else.
Once the secretary has collated the scores and run the results past the CO (normally within 24 hours of the board sitting) they will then send the results and supporting paperwork to the relevant Civil Servant at AOPC Glasgow for staff checking. This must be done within 10 days of the date of the board. Once the board results have been ratified (checked against JPA quals for instance), APC will notify the adjt by email and letter on a case by case basis whether or not they have permission to apply for the individuals promotion. This will normally take a week or so (if the CS is on leave, no one else will cover their desk, so the paperwork will just sit there), and then applications will be submitted at the behest of the Sub unit commander or CO depending upon the rank. These promotions can be applied for up to 364 days after the date of the board, as it’s up to the regt when to promote someone. However, it’s rare for anyone to delay a promotion (unless for disciplinary matters).
In summary, it should normally take no more than a month from the board sitting to promotion being confirmed to the individual. It is your responsibility to know the eligibility criteria for your promotion (no one will mind if you ask).

If you need more, feel free to PM me. I probably won't be able to explain your eligibility criteria, but am confident as to the process.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#13
It comes down to competence at your role, fitness, deployability, etc etc.

What am I on about, it mainly comes down to if your face fits with the Company Commander!
It actually comes down to whoever writes the 1 and 2 RO bits on your OJAR/SJAR - the grades come from the 5 scoring members, some of whom will have barely met you. The only thing they have to go on is the contents of the report book.
 
#15
It actually comes down to whoever writes the 1 and 2 RO bits on your OJAR/SJAR - the grades come from the 5 scoring members, some of whom will have barely met you. The only thing they have to go on is the contents of the report book.
Does it really though? In a TA Regiment where the Company/Sqn Commanders sit on the Regtl Promotion board, I'd say that regardless of SJAR you're shit out of luck if theres a personality clash.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#16
Does it really though? In a TA Regiment where the Company/Sqn Commanders sit on the Regtl Promotion board, I'd say that regardless of SJAR you're shit out of luck if theres a personality clash.


Read the post by Back at RD.

The other point to consider is the 2 point difference rule. You are graded by 5 officers (including possibly the RSM), who grade from 0 (unable to grade - usually due to incomplete report book) to 10 (walks on water, wonderful party tricks with loaves and fishes). Everyone gives their own score out of 10 based on the contents of the report books. If there is a 2 point difference between the scores given (ie everyone scores 5.5 apart from one who scores him 3) then the scorers have to explain their reasons.

This is usually settled by a chat to explain why one scorer sees it so differently to the others, and then a compromise until they reach agreement (usually by each adjusting their scores by 1/2 a point until the difference is less than 2). If they are unwilling to move, the CO may overrule as the presiding member, or that soldier's report book may be taken out of consideration for that board. It should then be represented at the next routine promotion board (or on an extraordinary board held to deal with the issue) once the report book has been completed properly.

So, your if OC doesn't like you then you should expect your SJAR to reflect that - ie a poor SJAR. Assuming you don't take the opportunity to redress any errors on fact contained in your SJAR, then all scoring members will see the same report and should score it in a similar way. Therefore, your SJAR drives your promotion prospects.

Now comes the fun bit.

1. If the 2 previous reports in your book are from a different OC and show you to be the best thing since sliced bread, I would question why there is a sudden change. As a scoring member I would certainly expect to see something in the narrative to explain the difference. If it isn't there, I would be tempted to score you a 0 to force discussion after the scoring round.

2. If your OC writes you a reasonable SJAR to avoid confrontation with you at the time, but then scores you harshly on the board, then it is likely to invoke the 2 point difference rule. If he can't explain why he wrote you up well but then scored you poorly, he will be told to adjust his score closer to one expected for the report he signed.

3. Some OCs can't write an SJAR for toffee and don't understand the scoring system. The onus is on the CO and Adjt to brief/grip them until they do. We ran training sessions for OCs to get to grips with it as some were, frankly, abysmal and allowed their personal prejudices (positive and negative) to run wild. Some were also unbelievably lazy and cut and paste standard SJARs for a number of their soldiers. The blokes wouldn't see it, but it is easy to pick up when you read 3 or 4 in a row. It is also why your grading board should be held before SJAR time to make sure that the CO has a chance to give his direction on how he sees grades being allocated to prevent the usual fuckwits from giving A- to his favourite CSM who was utterly incompetent.

I appreciate that it may seem difficult to believe if you have never been part of the system, but as long as the boards are run properly, then they really do reduce the issue of personal bias.
 
#19
A clear explanation that I won't quote entirely for the sake of clarity
Cheers mate, that actually sums it up really well. Unfortunately, thats the way its meant to happen.

Only receiving 2 SJARS in 7 years, promotion boards not actually sitting at a Regimental level, ie the OC was just promoting yes men and cronies, and the people you alluded to promoting their favourites seems to be the norm in my unit. I happen to know that in my unit it was done properly last year, and all sorts of 'undesirables' and 'not the right sort of chap', but who were bloody good soldiers picked up at all ranks.

IMHO, this all stems from poor Officer recruiting. Until we abandon the idea that attending University somehow qualifies you to lead men into battle, there will always be an unhealthy class divide between Officers and OR's. Its very difficult to shine when you know that a jumped up little **** fresh out of the OTC is looking down their nose at you. I'm not a Communist by any means, but this sort of thing grips my shit, good blokes not being picked up because of conduct that would be written off as "the blokes being the blokes" in a Regular Unit.

2 years as a Tom, then Commission. DE, in at least more than 50% of the cases, just doesn't work.

Anyway, off piste there slightly. Thanks for that Duke.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#20
Prae,

Unfortunately it is not as clear cut as that. One of the worst culprits for this was also up in the top three of worst ever Officers I have seen. He started his time as a TA Private, served time as a regular Pte and JNCO before subsequently commissioning. He was without doubt one of the most incompetent morons it has ever been my misfortune to see squeezed into a uniform. There are bad officers and good officers - degrees (or lack of) and time in ranks (or lack of) is no automatic quality marker.

The big one is getting TA officers to understand how reporting and promotions should work and instilling some honesty and integrity in how they do it. You will however notice lots of TA officers on here saying that they do not have time for MS, or believe they should have to do it for the soldiers they are responsible for.
 

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