I've recently deployed to Cyprus with the UN and found myself in a troop with a young LCPL from the REME. I still respect the fact as a rank below he is an NCO. But he's barely been in longer than me and he didn't even have to take a leadership course to get promoted. My point entirely is that he spent time  in training and then came out as a lance jack.

Why aren't all cap badges the same? We either all have to earn and qualify for promotion or we just get given it out of a xmas cracker.

what does everyone else think
The problem lies in pay.  Techs can earn a lot of dosh outside, unless we want Cfn earning as much as Sgt VMs, the techs have to have the time promotion.  
It can make them work hard, especially when CSMs make the little tw@ts as responsible as 'normal' NCOs by taking patrols out etc.  If they ness up, there's normally a singing shovel waiting ;)
"You realise how long Techs courses are?
Only about 2 1/2 years.  Promotion is deserved, but not guaranteed"

So what you are saying is that someone who does a course for a set time deserves promotion?
What about leadership, integrity, courage (moral & physical) and common sense? are they not prerequisites for an NCO?
Please tell me which course you attended that issues these qualities.
I agree with both points of view but doing a 2 1/2 yr course doesn't deserve promotion. I have been in as long as that and taken over 7 courses. I'm told that until i've completed my leadership course and show i'm capable of leading soldiers then i'll have to wait. Thats how it should be all across the cap badges.
Do the courses, get qualified and then show people you're leadership material
Unfortunately, REME has sold itself on the early promotion lark!  However, there is a mechanism at Ph2 whereby if soldiers haven't quite made the grade on their mid-course exercise, they have their promotion deferred for 6-12 months upon completion of their Ph2 course.  Trouble is, not much backbone exists to use this highly effective motivational too!  Certainly cut down the pre-ex sick parade once the facts were spelt out!!
Can you get ahold of the REME band??? They're always touring somewhere else aren't they?  Cracking band though....!
Talking of promotion - good letter in the Crafty this month about Promotion Boards etc.  Must be one of the 'livliest' letters published :D
Tech do go through a promotion course before leaving and if they fail they leave as a cfn (except if the play rugby then they pass all the course's they attend).
Also when they do their jmc how come they normal come top !!!!!! :p
That's because they are more switched on most of the time.
So stop moaning, grease monkey ;D
I did play sport rugby included, but i have seen people go through you were S**t tradesmen/women but played for the battalion/cor
I agree biftex is c**p but what else can they do to keep/recruit techs but fast promotion and higher wages - considering they get a lot more in civvie street.
It can be crap for us techs you join up later in life and see these brats @ 19 yrs old a full screw too. ;D
Yes, it is annoying to see 19 year old tech full-screws, especially the ones that can spell 'Corps' correctly ;)

No Techs came near the top on my JMC, SMC or ACFC1, gues we had a better class of black hander back then ::)
Can see the points of view from both sides on this one, with pro's and cons which will be argued about until the cows come home.

One point I have noticed though, is that when it comes to Tiffi's, you get alot of "Black hand trades" who have had no experience of being a SNCO, jumping to SSgt in a year and a half, whereas most Tech Tiffi's have at least had several years experience of being in the mess etc.  

There is a vast difference between Jnco and Snco, and i am not sure that a year and a half at Borden on a Tiffi course gives you enough to take away with you...????

Also instead of fighting between ourselves, (which we always seem to do), shouldnt we be asking the powers that be why as class 1 and Tiffi's, we are being paid the same as Other arms who do a 5 week SQMS course. ??
its a case of well done guys, you have passed an intensive year and a half course, your more qualified than most of your officers, have an extra £21 a week before tax......  paycut 2000, gotta love it......
Was gonna  go into a big air tech defending session but whats the point?  Been there with the VMs too many times during tops-off on a Friday (almost a thing of the past).  Bitter fuc#ers!  Trying to explain to non-techs why the army sees fit to accelerate our promotion is an occupational hazard.  I'm assuming that you are not a tech Man Overboard.  That LCpl knows that he is no infantryman.  He doesn't need to be one... he may be a tech with a long and academically challenging course behind him.  The Army needs to keep him in as long as possible in order to recoup the cost of training him and to keep its ever more advanced equipment on the road, in the sea and in the air.  And since Pants2000 took his money away, promotion is the only carrot left.....  Doesn't mean he's necessarily a crap soldier though :)
Just wanted to clarify that Verticals' "bifftex" in Long Valley is no more.  Instead, the poor dears are subjected to two weeks in good old Sennybridge, where the DS do the rain dance regularily.  A definite shock to their (cfn) systems.

Also need to point out that the Military Training Wing at SEAE is completely on the black economy - as when SEAE was re-organised, they saw fit to do away with all dedicated military training staff save what was in the Companies.  Fancy that eh?
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