Promotion to Sgt at the end of the Pilots course

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Golf_one_one, Dec 31, 2004.

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  1. Should all Cpl Pilots have got their Sgt automatically after they've earnt they're wings?

    Will this form a wedge between groundies and aircrew? Traditionaly bridged by Full Screw pilots, especialy those who live in.

    Will this devalue the rank of Sgt?

    Is it retention or JHC driven in the persuit of "jointery" (like no rank on flying suit arms)

    Does anyone not understand the practice?
    In your own time, Go On
  2. Good luck to them - being a full screw pilot sucks, you get all the sh*t jobs, have to babysit brand new Officer ac comdrs and most SSM's don't like it coz you earn more than them. It's good that it's gone back to the way it used to be and I don't think Groundies are p*ssed off about it, at least none of the ones I know - after all, they aren't taking any Groundie Sgt slots :)
  3. Just re-inventing the Pre - Crest wheel.
  4. Don't know too much about the weed-o-phile story, but my daughter is NCO aircrew at RAF Cranwell and she is 21 and an acting Sgt. Gets some grief from old hands as a "plastic" Sgt, but the training is bloody hard. Also, she can not - without the bar codes on her shoulders, ever become a pilot. And this despite her having flown and taught other Air Cadets to fly before she could drive! Sorry if RAF types shouldn't be here, but it's a bloody good site!! Only wish we had one!

  5. Should have joined the army then......... :p

    And if she's an SH loadie, she'll never clean her GPMG
    poor skills
  6. So instead of being a cpl pilot looking after the officers and getting pooh jobs you will become the nig Sgt pilot looking after the knobs doing the poo jobs..............shame!
  7. "Once upon a time" you were promoted to the rank of acting Sgt to start the pilots course and then had to take your chance with the subsequant promotion boards after sucessfully completing the course. In those days you were an aircraft commander and the aircraft were all single pilot operations. The two crew concept sort of killed this off and when it was realised that the AAC had to double the amount of pilots to man its aircraft it did it the cheapest way possible - by paying pilots less, hence Cpl pilots. The system would probably argue that a tank commander has a similar responsibility and is a Cpl.

    As to this decision - who knows. If it is for a pay upgrade to assist retention then watch out. Gazelle goes out of service very shortley and all of a sudden the Corps will be overmanned with pilots (both Officer and SNCO) - watch and shoot, watch and shoot! :roll:
  8. I agree that a Cpl should be promoted on completion of his APC, and of course that he passes his SMC/CLM what ever it’s called you know the one Cadre. To obtain Sub rank, like we all had to do!!.................. Apart from the odd one or two who shall remain name less by me anyway.

    But can somebody please explain why are they on HIGH PAY BAND ? flying pay yes but Higher Rates of Pay why.

    I work just as hard and get a lot less than my equal number.

    Of course that don’t mean he shouldn’t get it just means I should, we all should

    All AAC soldiers for Higher Rates of Pay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. Simple really.
    Politics - CREST - Formation commanders could not cope with the fact that LCpl Air Gunners / Acmn Observers could be placed in a position to make vital tactical assesments (using ISTAR sensors available at the time - F120 sight 8O ) and pass G2 infor up the radio. Guards Armd Bde effectively moving on LCpl Bloggo say so!!! MMM hardly credible for most Commanders..must be at least an SNCO...dont ya know what! Put Sgt pilot in sight seat and make him an Aircraft Commander..note all Army Pilots were Aircraft Captains pre- CREST. Remember Aircraft Commander pay came in AFTER CREST! More pilots required but no more money. Undermine Crab and Fleets persistant and out dated argument to retain all Officer Pilots. Widen recruiting base for pilot courses...answer, expediant at the time-CPL pilots :?

    21st Century arrives (noting that even GPR had min rank of Sgt for a one way, one off un-powered flight!)+ JHC era. Highly skilled, costly trained pilot Guard 2IC Cpl on Mon, handling pilot for lead aircraft in Joint Night Tac Formation on Ops on Tues? Working with; CHF Acmn in back of Kingo Booty Cpl with min responsibility. Minimum rank for ramp up / down operator in Crab Big Windy Sgt (and after 60 weeks total service in uniform!!), even less thinking power required. Add AAC Mess Webley foot shooting decision..min rank for AH rear seat driver..SGT 8O Result, shakey case for retention of Cpl pilot, of which there were only about 20+ around the Corps.

    If memory serves, case put forward by Trades Review Team (remember their Roadshow brief at base loc) several years ago for Sgt at Wings. Long overdue if you ask me.
    Rank is all about span of responsibility...I would suggest any pilot warrants recognition of that, even if it is just Sgt. There should be no gripes from the Mess either, those in senior Mess positions should welcome anyone promoted to Mess status whatever the path and time taken and guide them accordingly. There should be no disparity, respect also groundies who strive to get to the Mess, but do not spurn fellow members (who were likley groundcrew Cpls / Avn Cmn anyway) who have trained hard to get Wings. :wink:
  11. Outstanding reply!!
  12. I will second that....

  13. And the wheel just keeps on turning.