Private prisons.

#1
I see the groundwork is being laid for an expansion of the private prison Industry with a report out this week claiming
that they are more efficient than proper ones.
Given that the profits from this this type of business depends on prisoner numbers, are we likely to see (a) more toerags
getting time inside earlier instead of "a string of convictions" before sentencing...a good thing, or (b) a rise in prisoner numbers
based on "stepping on the cracks in the pavement" type convictions...a bad thing.
I ask because of some things I have read about the American experience of the "prison industrial complex".http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=private%20prison%20industry%20growth&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheintelhub.com%2F2012%2F05%2F17%2Fprison-industrial-complex%2F&ei=ehAnUb6cN9GN0wXIhIDICQ&usg=AFQjCNEwIvhfg5i9ETEZm_tkaR1vw_u9OA
 
P

Placebo

Guest
#2
A big bit of both. Businesses depend on customers and in this case it is all about getting people in jail and prison as fast and as long as possible. Either way the prison industry here in Septicstan is making so much dough they can do this:

"...the Boca Raton school, home of the Owls, sold naming rights to its 29,000-seat stadium to a private prison corporation, a change that has brought the school criticism, controversy and $6 million - the biggest gift ever made to the school's athletic department. GEO Group, a billion-dollar company which operates an immigration center in nearby Pompano Beach, as well as prisons elsewhere in the U.S., South Africa and the United Kingdom, will pay for the honor in $500,000 yearly installments over the next 12 years...." or

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons
 
#3
Just wait until private security companies have responsibility for putting people into private prisons. It's not that far off. In reply to the original post, I believe it will result in mainly (a) but with enough of (b) for the general public to be reasonably concerned.
 
#4


I think the prison service is one thing we should keep firmly under 'public' control.
 
#5
I believe this is the thinking of the group Reform and has been chinned off by the government, which given the Tories previous penchant for the private sector had my eyebrows raising like Roger Moore chatting up a bird in a bar.
My mate is a prisoner officer and the nick where he works had a market test case which decided against privatisation along with as i understand it several others.

As an aside:
Reform is an independent, charitable, non-party think tank whose mission is to set out a better way to deliver public services and economic prosperity.

The above copied and pasted from the Reform website which immediately got the spidey senses tingling.
 
#7
I'm undecided on private prisons:

- can you be secure of security? (Same can be said for a public prison but you have more control)

- can you be sure of the staff (same for a public prison, but you have more control)?

- can you be sure that the staff will be treated as prison staff by the inmates?

Maybe a good solution would be to have a public prison governor and a public prison middle manager per shift?

And build in massive fines for escapes, violence etc.

Would they be more suited to running open/training type prisons?



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#8
I'm undecided on private prisons:

- can you be secure of security? (Same can be said for a public prison but you have more control)

- can you be sure of the staff (same for a public prison, but you have more control)?

- can you be sure that the staff will be treated as prison staff by the inmates?

Maybe a good solution would be to have a public prison governor and a public prison middle manager per shift?

And build in massive fines for escapes, violence etc.

Would they be more suited to running open/training type prisons?



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Mrs. B is very senior in NOMS. Private prisons are overseen by operational NOMS people (ie a regional director who was governor previously) in the same way that public prisons are and have to conform to exactly the same standards, so the reality is they are theoretically just as safe/dangerous/well run/badly run as any public sector prison.

Private sector certainly pay less though, except for governor grades are who significantly better paid than their public sector counterparts.
 
#9
No better or worse than a privatised Army I suppose.

"Boots & Bayonets PLC" will have to conform to the same standards as the public sector army and will be overseen in exactly the same way.
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
I see the groundwork is being laid for an expansion of the private prison Industry with a report out this week claiming
that they are more efficient than proper ones.
Given that the profits from this this type of business depends on prisoner numbers, are we likely to see (a) more toerags
getting time inside earlier instead of "a string of convictions" before sentencing...a good thing, or (b) a rise in prisoner numbers
based on "stepping on the cracks in the pavement" type convictions...a bad thing.
I ask because of some things I have read about the American experience of the "prison industrial complex".http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=private%20prison%20industry%20growth&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CD8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheintelhub.com%2F2012%2F05%2F17%2Fprison-industrial-complex%2F&ei=ehAnUb6cN9GN0wXIhIDICQ&usg=AFQjCNEwIvhfg5i9ETEZm_tkaR1vw_u9OA
I have noticed from previous post that you have some fairly good working knowledge of HMP.
I have to admit that as an ex officer I find them quite interesting.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#12
I think HMP Doncaster was the first private prison it had its cat A prisoners taken away because it wasn't secure enough. They run on dangerous staffing levels, pay poor wages, are badly run and prisoners don't like them.
Poor regimes lead to problems. Ken Clarke****ed them up last time and will do the same again.
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Number one issue with all establishments and staff is security.
Can the private prison offer the same as a state run prison?
Will the staff undergo the stringent vetting that the prison service does?
When I used to be a prison officer we would be quick to slag off a private prison, but was it from fear of losing out or because we thought it would be run by money grabbing muppets?
One thing the average prison officer holds dear is his civil service pension and because of over crowding the massive amount of extra hours they can work.
It would be interesting to see how it works out but I do have concerns over security, safety and training.
Will the staff and management be up to what already is a very difficult job?
 
#14
Why should the state run prisons?

Statist solutions are always expensive and inefficient.
Yes they are.

However, one of the major contenders for police and prisons, G4S, proved what an absolute shower of shit they were last year with the Olympics. It will be Minimum Wage Monkeys for Maximum Profits.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#15
Prison officers don't earn loads of money, no night pay, no weekend pay, no shift allowances, no overtime pay.
The only way to make money is to drive down wages, staffing and pensions. To keep staff low prisoners will spend more time in cell and will be powder kegs.
When there are problems I'm sure the HMP Tornado teams will sort out the problems or maybe the police or Army.
 
#16
G4S is almost as bad as a state solution, they are the first port of call for someone who does not want to do any work on the matter. They are not the only option. Why couldn't a hotel chain bid on it?

I still fail to see why the state should take it upon itself to run prisons (as well as a lot of other things).
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#17
G4S is almost as bad as a state solution, they are the first port of call for someone who does not want to do any work on the matter. They are not the only option. Why couldn't a hotel chain bid on it?

I still fail to see why the state should take it upon itself to run prisons (as well as a lot of other things).
Even in low secure prisons you've some monsters. It takes years of experience to be able to manage them.
 

DieHard

LE
Book Reviewer
#18
Prison officers don't earn loads of money, no night pay, no weekend pay, no shift allowances, no overtime pay.
The only way to make money is to drive down wages, staffing and pensions. To keep staff low prisoners will spend more time in cell and will be powder kegs.
When there are problems I'm sure the HMP Tornado teams will sort out the problems or maybe the police or Army.
While the basic was not great, the london allowance or equivalent plus the 180 extra hours you could sign up for and HAVE to do and the odd 15mins you get every day, the money can be very good. I was clearing about 30grand after tax 8 years ago.
Mind you i only saw the mrs a couple of times a week and the kids forgot who i was. Once you start going up the promotion ladder or specialize then the money is very good and the less risk there is.
As i have said the pension is very good, pity that statistics show that a high percentage of prison officers die within two years of retiring.
For the most truthful, hard hitting view of an officer read Screwed by ronnie thompson.

Sent by Crapatalk. Sitting on my bog having a dump.
 
#19
That's management of individuals within the institution so employ the right people, it doesn't demand state control or even G4S, a hotel chain manages similar problems. Why couldn't one do it?
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#20
While the basic was not great, the london allowance or equivalent plus the 180 extra hours you could sign up for and HAVE to do and the odd 15mins you get every day, the money can be very good. I was clearing about 30grand after tax 8 years ago.
Mind you i only saw the mrs a couple of times a week and the kids forgot who i was. Once you start going up the promotion ladder or specialize then the money is very good and the less risk there is.
As i have said the pension is very good, pity that statistics show that a high percentage of prison officers die within two years of retiring.
For the most truthful, hard hitting view of an officer read Screwed by ronnie thompson.

Sent by Crapatalk. Sitting on my bog having a dump.
I'm fairly sure all that's gone and career progression is pretty much nil.
 

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