Private parking charge fines deemed legal by Supreme Court.

#3
Can you still challenge the value of the 'fine'? e.g. "£85 for five minutes is a bit steep, here's a fiver."
 
#5
This is a major ruling in favour of those lizards who'll charge you £85 for overstaying in eg. McDonald's.

Previously the attempts at gouging out cash have been chinned off but the Supreme Court has now ruled them legal...

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-press-summary.pdf
I can see that a few might challenge this ruling as it's quite narrow in what it considered.

I can see why a large shopping complex want customers to leave within two hours so a new set of customers can come, but what if the shopping trip would take three hours, and the shopper was spending throughout that time.

It also didn't cover areas that have a set time limit, but with no loss to business for overstaying.

Does this ruling now mean that the charges apply from this point on, or will parking companies now be going back through their records to recover old charges?
 
#6
This is a major ruling in favour of those lizards who'll charge you £85 for overstaying in eg. McDonald's.

Previously the attempts at gouging out cash have been chinned off but the Supreme Court has now ruled them legal...

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-press-summary.pdf
Their Lordship's judgement (& thanks for the link) says, at its core, "Yes, Parking Eye are making a nice chunky profit out of this. But that's what businesses try to do".

And we can make of that what we want.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#7
Can you still challenge the value of the 'fine'? e.g. "£85 for five minutes is a bit steep, here's a fiver."
It seems not. The 'genuine pre estimate of loss' argument has been thrown out by this ruling with an acceptance that the value of the fines is reasonable.
 
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#8
And one thing that winds me up about this whole set-up:

Let's say I come out of the Post Office. There is a substantial ding on one my bumpers. A kindly old bloke says "I saw the driver that did that. He just drove off. But I wrote his number down. Here it is".

This happened to me about 10 years ago. Police not interested. I just took it on the chin. Now, if I'd written to DVLA asking for driver name & address, they'd have told me to do one.

So what the hell are they doing giving out peoples' details to private parking companies? These people are not the police.

Yes, I know that there's some sort of agreement where DVLA sell our info to 'registered' companies. DVLA makes cash & so do the parking companies.

But it's the principle that is wrong. That a government agency flogs citizens' details to businesses.
 
#11
Every day's a school day! Cheers for that.

Hmm. Why didn't the copper tell me that?

Looking at the form, Section 5 "What will you do with this information?": I wonder how many replies they get saying "Burgle them / stalk them / pinch their motor / give them a hiding for cutting me up in traffic then giving me an obscene hand gesture".
 
#12
The judgement is that the charge is enforceable, and that it is reasonable for Riverside Retail Park to have its parking managed, and for Parking Eye to be able to make the money to run the operation.

The argument by Beavis was that the charge was unenforceable, there were signs around etc, the initial appeals process allows for evidence that you have been shopping (with receipts etc)
(It doesn't say whether or not Beavis was shopping and had consideration about staying a bit too long)

So the precident is there now that charges and fines can't just be chinned off because its not a police or council fine. If the charge was hundreds in the first instance then its still arguable that its unreasonable.

Avoid taking too long to park, look for the machine in case you need to get a free ticket, buy a ticket or move your car if you're taking too long, or make an appeal on other grounds that you took a bit too long and were shopping.

I've had cases where I successfully appealed with the companies (not Parking Eye) because:
1) their signage was rubbish, and the sign at the car park entrance was turned around facing a bush
2) that I have driven through a car park twice past cameras but did not park as it was full. They sent me a charge with photos of my original entry and my final exit. I challenged that they should look at the exit and entry minutes after the first entry and minutes before the last exit.
 
#13
I can see that a few might challenge this ruling as it's quite narrow in what it considered.
The difficulty with that is the judgement is made by the Supreme Court, fortunately it doesn't bind itself.

What does strike me and could be worth the challenge is that the judgement was based on an old common law, which the justices themselves referred to as not being the easiest to apply, further they also admit that the ratio conflicts with EU law, which brings three points to mind, legislation is supreme to common law, the judgement appears to be made without considering EU law nor has a purposive approach been taken.

I can see why a large shopping complex want customers to leave within two hours so a new set of customers can come, but what if the shopping trip would take three hours, and the shopper was spending throughout that time.
A very good point and one that appears to be consistent with the principle of law in the decision, but contrary to the actions of the appellant.

It also didn't cover areas that have a set time limit, but with no loss to business for overstaying.
it does, the loss of business is the loss of that space. It's a contractural arrangement.

Does this ruling now mean that the charges apply from this point on, or will parking companies now be going back through their records to recover old charges?
The law cannot be applied retrospectively.
 
#14
Dingerr.
When I mentioned a set time limit, but no loss of business I was thinking of something like an aldi or Lidl shop.
They have spaces for shoppers to use, and a time limit applies for those spaces, but there wouldn't be a loss of 'shopping business' if someone parked between 8 and 10pm on a Sunday when the store is closed.
That springs to mind from a case many years back whereby a pastor was fined for parking in an Aldi car park during hours the store was closed.

I can see the ruling allows for the parking company to need to make a living, but it still seems not quite right to issue a charge for someone parking in a free car car while the store was closed. It's more 'wrong' IMHO (on moral not legal grounds) for the car park company to be enforcing rules while the store was closed.
 
#15
Dingerr.
When I mentioned a set time limit, but no loss of business I was thinking of something like an aldi or Lidl shop.
They have spaces for shoppers to use, and a time limit applies for those spaces, but there wouldn't be a loss of 'shopping business' if someone parked between 8 and 10pm on a Sunday when the store is closed.
That springs to mind from a case many years back whereby a pastor was fined for parking in an Aldi car park during hours the store was closed.

I can see the ruling allows for the parking company to need to make a living, but it still seems not quite right to issue a charge for someone parking in a free car car while the store was closed. It's more 'wrong' IMHO (on moral not legal grounds) for the car park company to be enforcing rules while the store was closed.
In principle moraly wrong to enforce parking of a car park thats not required at the time, if the enforcement is to keep it available.

But what right do we have to park in somebodies car park?

If they put the right signs up about when and how we can park, then they are in the right.

In Salisbury there was free Sunday parking, then the council introduced a fixed 'per session' charge, at approximately the one hour rate of other days. Outrage from the church community beside the car park that they had to pay to worship.

Most Sundays car parks are reasonably spacious, but theres still things going on in town including shopping, so people want to park. Those parking are not depriving others of the opportunity to park, but being a council carpark it still needs to be maintained. Its fair for the users of a carpark to contribute to the upkeep, even though Salisburys parking rates far outweigh other towns in the area.


Why is it more outrageous that a pastor or church goers get fined or have to pay?
 
#16
Tommikka
I never mentioned it being outrageous.
The point of mentioning him being a pastor was because it was relevant to a day that the shop was closed.
It's worth also pointing out that the signs only mentioned a set parking time. There was no mention of any day of the week from what I remember.

What your post did make me think about was that all the signs I see of this type allow the same parking period when the shop is closed to when the shops are open
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#17
Does this also apply to Scotland then?
Standard caveat of - not a lawyer etc. - but I don't believe it does. As far as I'm aware the only people who can fine you for overstaying here are the police and the local council (or companies working for).

Edited to add: Ignore me. I was (not particularly surprisingly) talking nonsense. Was thinking of wheel-clamping.

Parking tickets on private land - Citizens Advice Scotland
 
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#18
Standard caveat of - not a lawyer etc. - but I don't believe it does. As far as I'm aware the only people who can fine you for overstaying here are the police and the local council (or companies working for).
Same in England and Wales, but these private companies aren't giving out fines, they are giving out charges.
 
#20
Simply lends more to the argument of avoiding the shopping centres which observe such policy.
Many other out of town shopping retail parks which don't charge to park crying out for money to be spent.

Hoist the buggers on their own petard.

Can't remember the last time I paid to park. On the few occasions I do need to go into town I walk down (about 25 - 30 Minutes) and get the bus back and it still works out cheaper than an hours parking and I get some free exercise out of it.
 

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