Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by AT55, Dec 20, 2007.

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  1. I was tickled by the following in Private Eye relating to an exchange between Richard Bacon MP and the MOD's Trevor Woolley. The exchange took place during a House of Commons Public Accounts Committee meeting into the sale of DERA / QinetiQ. Since the sale, some staff have made £millions from the sale of shares.

    Bacon. “Mr Wooley are you a chartered accountant?”

    Woolley “I am not”

    Bacon “Are you a qualified financial person of any kind? Do you have any financial qualifications?”

    Woolley “I do not have any financial qualifications?”

    Bacon “What is your job?”

    Wooley “I am the financial director of the Ministry of Defence”
  2. Bowmore_Assassin

    Bowmore_Assassin LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Just about sums up the importance given to the MoD by the socialist PC party called Labour. Add in a part-time Minister and you have a bunch of walts at the top of MoD f*cking us all about with no concept of things like competancy, honour or duty. Stopping now before a massive rant kicks in...I can feel it coming.
  3. total class! but does it really suprise you?
  4. Good spot AT55 haven't seen a copy yet, but it speaks volumes that it has not been reported elsewhere.

    Filbert's about right - anyone tracked down what a none-accountant earns as FD at the MOD yet?
  5. My bold

    Haven´t got a clue, but no doubt it´ll be in the top bracket of Good CO´s "How much do you earn" poll :roll:
  6. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Anyone who thinks that having an Accountant as head of Finance is a Good Thing has never worked with Accountants. I have worked forTrevor Woolley at various times over many years, and he is a far better Financier for the MoD than any accounant brought in from Deloitte or PWC could ever be.

    Parliament is full of Accountants and Lawyers - is this good? TW is a Top Bloke, who will fight MoD's corner as hard as he can (and has done recently). Do not be taken in by consultant propoganda! Richard Bacon MP is a career politician, unfit to do anything else, and it ill befits him to abuse anyone else. TW has been involved in MoD finance for over 25 years, and knows his stuff. I just don't like to see a good man disparaged by a puffed-up politico who has very little idea of what he is talking about.
  7. OldSnowy, I quite agree. It's obvious that Bacon doesn't actually know what he is talking about.
  8. Classic.

    I have had some dealings with Richard Bacon and can say, though I am no fan of MP's as a whole, that he isn't that bad a guy.
  9. Its no different to putting a 2* general in charge of a major procurement project - chances are that they've got no formal qualifications or experience. The whole point is that you've got Staff Officers and appropriately qualified Civil Servants to do the in depth stuff - HM Forces and MOD have a tradition of appointing non specialists to head areas up - for instance the last DCDI had never done a J2 job in his life, didn't stop him from being good at it though.
  10. I agree with you!

  11. Fair comment Old_Snowy, I posted from a "surprised" that the man at the top did not have a formal qualification in the area of his responsibility and I can understand Jim's comments re 2* in procurement.

    I would be interested in what % of the FTSE 500 employ a Finance Director without a solid financial qualification. no matter what their experience?

    If this were a FTSE 500 company that was so starved of cash despite the "business" demands of it, how long would that FD survive in the boardroom?
  12. A) Seconding Snowy, likewise from personal knowledge (that's our covers blown, mate).

    B) In answer to AB2006, tis indeed Her Majesty's Treasury who are insisting that all such Finance Directors in future be qualified accountants.

    Now then, given that:
    - chances are high that a really high-powered accountant type would have to be recruited in from outside;
    - that said accountant would have diddly-squat knowledgeof / loyalty to the Armed Forces;
    - would cost a fortune;
    - be at risk of being rail-roaded by HMT;

    in whose interests do you think having such an imported FD work? Ours? Or HMTs? Hmmm.

    (And given that Trevor has over the years proved more than a match for HMT in exploiting their self-same rules and regulations to our advantage... and don't they know it.)
  13. I tend to agree with Old Snowy. "qualified" accountants have a largely inflated view of their importance in any organisation. I conceed that accounting qualifications are very difficult to get ( helped by the fact that the various accounting bodies restrict the numbers that pass, and therefore keep salaries bouyant, in a way that that would make Bob Crow blush) - talk about closed shop!

    Richard Bacon MP

    Hope he got the message

    nuff said really
  14. Grownup_Rafbrat

    Grownup_Rafbrat LE Book Reviewer Good Egg (charities)

    Subscribe! It lands on your doormat before it's in the shops. And when the PC brigade get an edition banned from the shops you still have it.
  15. I think one of the major differences would be that an FTSE 500 Finance Director would do all he could to ensure that the shareholders got a good return, sometimes to the betterment of the company and the reverse.

    The Armed Forces are not a FTSE 500 company, or a business of any kind and can not be run as such. Therefore it is highly ineffectaul to have someone who only has a finance background at the top.