Prison. Butlins or Gulag?

are Uk prisons a:

  • There must be another way than to deprive liberty?

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  • Holiday camp?

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  • Deterrent?

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  • Total voters
There has always been a number of suicides in prison among young offenders. However, in view of a number of comments on various Police threads, I think a poll may be worthwhile.
Report - Prison Suicides Still Too Frequent

Wednesday, January 04, 2006

The number of prison suicides fell by a fifth last year, but the figure is still too high, a prison reform group warned today.

Official figures, released on New Year's Day, showed there were 78 self-inflicted deaths in English and Welsh prisons in 2005 compared with 95 in 2004.

Frances Crook, the director of the Howard League for Penal Reform, warned the Home Office not to treat the reduction as a success.

"Whilst this long-overdue fall in the number of prison suicides is welcome, it should not obscure the fact that 78 men, women and children still died during the course of the year," she said.

"What the figures really show is how low things had sunk in recent years for the authorities to be hailing the fact that 'only' 78 people took their own lives during 2005.

"The Home Office should not lull itself into a false sense of security by believing that they have cracked the problem of suicide in prison."

The Howard League pointed out that 16 of those who took their own lives were aged under 21, including two aged 16 and 17.

The proportion of suicides by ethnic minority inmates rose from one in 10 of all prison suicides in the past five years to more than one in five during 2005, it added.

Home Office minister Baroness Scotland said: "The government takes the issue of suicide in prisons very seriously and, in the face of population pressures, suicide prevention efforts have continued with unprecedented energy and commitment.

"A new care-planning system is being rolled out across the estate to ensure that there is a flexible, holistic approach to address the needs and care of these highly vulnerable people.

"We will continue to learn from our experience and will continue to work with a wide range of stakeholders to improve our practices and procedures."


Book Reviewer
The threat of being sent down should strike fear into those considering a life of crime. Those that do get put away should spend their time wishing that they were out and planning on a life where they never have to return. TVs, pool tables, Playstations and the like should all be taken away and the place turned into a place of punishment. If they are overcrowded, don't release criminals early - build more, bigger prisons. I'm sure there must be an island somehere off the scottish coast that no-one wants, use it for these prisoners. Let life mean life and stop pandering to the liberal bleeding-hearts brigade who don't want prisoners to be upset and being locked up.

There you go - rant over!!


Prison Suicide = Less overcrowding which means we can bang up more drug dealers instead of bailing them to re-offend.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime ladies and gents of the criminal fraternity!
I hate the term "criminal fraternity" -- it gives criminals as a group an air of legitimacy, as if they are fundamentally the same as any other "fraternity".
I can't help feeling that something's gone wrong somewhere along the way. The present prison system in the US and Europe has been in existence for hundreds of years. Surely in that long time some sort of result could be expected? But all they do is build more chokeys and bang more people up.
I've no idea what a different system could look like, but if life in prison prompted 75 people to take their own lives and 98 the year before, something's badly awry somewhere.



How about a system in which murderers were executed, those that are put in jail are actually punished for their crime, and those first offenders who stray are given such a hard time they would never consider reoffending? ie Make jails unpleasant and there may be less people being jailed, it's called deterrence.
i agree with "Legs" comments, all the home comforts should be binned, work them, break rocks with sledgehammers or whatever.

As for overcrowding, build big floating prisons and stick em out on the North Sea about 25 miles off Bridlington, that'll cheer them up.
The trouble with the prisonn system is that small-time petty scrotes get to mix with the big boys inside, thus picking up an education into how to be a real criminal nasty piece of sh@t. Then they come out to the public after their two year reduced to two month sentance and commit some really serious crimes. The Victorians had the right idea!


Which is why a one size fits all prison policy doesn't work. First time offenders... boot camp... 2nd offence Hard time Jail, 3rd offence Life imprisonment.... Murder etc.... Death..... Bet you would see a sharp reduction in crime and less innocent people being murdered.
Yeah, it's badly awry hat the suicide rate's not in triple figures.
If you can't hack jail - DON'T BREAK THE LAW!
The more worthless little scroates top themselves, the less my taxes have to pay for. And at least I can be sure they won't re-offend.
We should build American style Super-Max jails. One prisoner to a cell. No TV, DVD, Radio or books. No exercise. No interaction with other cons or guards. No contact with family. No time off for good behaviour - just xtra time for any breach of discipline. All guards to be paramilitary trained, armed and wearing full riot gear at all times.Attack a guard and, at the very least, you will be beaten to a pulp. Try to escape and we'll shoot you dead - if the dogs don't get you first.
There are plenty of open spaces up here in Scotland to build these type of jails.
Most people in jail are not unluck, or socially disadvantaged or any of the other excuses you hear. Most people are in jail because they are lazy, vicous, worthless scum. And it's tine we started treating them like scum.
Unfortunately, I think we're all sufficiently educated to realise that the death penalty will never be re-instated in this country.


Why not Private Pike? Most people want it reinstated... except scum and do gooders.
Bugsy7 said:
I can't help feeling that something's gone wrong somewhere along the way. The present prison system in the US and Europe has been in existence for hundreds of years. Surely in that long time some sort of result could be expected? But all they do is build more chokeys and bang more people up.
I've no idea what a different system could look like, but if life in prison prompted 75 people to take their own lives and 98 the year before, something's badly awry somewhere.

What has gone awry is that we don't have enough loony bins anymore.
Care in the community is a great big steaming pile of shite that has cost lives.

Dr Fazel told the BBC News website: "The incidence of suicide in prison had not really been reliably examined before."

He said he believed there were two main reasons for the increased number of suicides among prisoners, compared with men of the same age in the general population.

"There have been large numbers of people with mental illnesses who have left hospital because of the Care in the Community scheme.

"Half those who commit suicide in prison have a treatable mental illness."
The problem is the attitude to most of the lowlifes who are up in front of the justice system. I was in court (as an observer) the other day and was shocked at the lack of concern a lot of the oiks showed at being up for their crime. One young tealeaf came in, slung his bag in the dock before slouching down in his best kappa tracksuit. I wanted to scream "send the oik down, i don't care what he has done". having never been on the recieving end of the justice system, i would treat being summoned with a great deal of embarasmnet and turn up suited and booted and whatever else is required to try and stay out of punnishment. But this guys "whatever" attitude was a real eye opener. If i thought this was a one off then i was wrong. Allt he cases, bar one, were scruffy oiks who would have benifited a "badlads" style beasting with that provost sgt!!!

The oiks use their crime stats as a badge of pride, and even their parents, parteners, kids are proud of their record. But i'm not sure whatthe answer is except beatings and a remote island prison or prison ships!!!!!!

My friend is a Prisoner officer, he has worked in all your well known prisons and now has an easier life at a catagory 'D' prison. He has been on the discipline squad, and the snatch retrieval squads, worked as a prison PTI etc.

The thing that is getting his goat at the moment is the following.

A) The amount of re-offending scrotes that are still getting light sentences and he sees them repeatedly every six months, where they then behave in the nick, get early release, with a place set up for them to live etc they then default on the rent, borrow beg steal of everybody and re-offend. He thinks we should have a three stikes your out policy (he likes the Idea of super max prisons on a Scotish Island).

B) And this actually really gets him hot under the collar, mentally ill people that have failed to pay council tax, debts, or have attacked and hurt someone because they haven't had their medication and voices told them to do it. He says they are fine once they have their regular medication and then they realise where they are, then they get suicidal etc, Prisons are for prisoners, not mental health cases that have been parked in his prison because their are not enough care in the community nurses to keep them taking their medication at home.

C)And his latest cripe, if they have to section someone and there is no space at the local hospital closed ward,the sectioned person is then brought into the prison and kept there.

J on behave of Officer L************ (nice soldier xyz touch I thought there).
when I become PM, as well as sorting out the Pension crisis for good Unlike Mr "Lets slap a bandaid over a gunshot wound" Brown), And telling the EU to feck off, until they do some house cleaning (and then re-divertign the 12Bn into defense), I would sort out the criminal system.

We have a medival law system with lots of new laws bolted on top. So rework it from the ground up!
Re-introduce corpral punishment. For minor offences there by reduceing overcrowding.
Prisions become harder, No TV, Gym or Raido. they can have a good libray though. if they are good little boys they get a raido, if they're realy good, they get acces to the Gym, If they're little angels they get acces to a TV room. Compulsary education and NVQ training as well. and tax breaks for companies that employ Ex-cons.
When I was in Bulford our block should have been condemed (the cookhouse was). In winter and no heating, no hot water and a rat infestation! Our Coy commander was married to a prison officer and told us that if it happened in a prison the prisoners would be rehouse elsewhere. The OC in question really fought our corner for us though and made great efforts to address the situation. So it seems everyone, unemplyed drug dealing scroats, asylum seekers and prisoners get a better deal than us!

Prisoners do get it too easy, nice warm cells, good food and some get 3? electrial items of their choice in their rooms too!

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