Priority Assistance?

#1
Gents,
Obviously a command element would be more than able to manage multiple calls for assistance over the net. And ideally would have assets available for any shout for help but would I be correct in stating that a request for CAS from 'Troops in Contact' would take precedence over a 'CASEVAC' request, if ever there was a limited availability of close air support elements?
 
#2
Gents,
Obviously a command element would be more than able to manage multiple calls for assistance over the net. And ideally would have assets available for any shout for help but would I be correct in stating that a request for CAS from 'Troops in Contact' would take precedence over a 'CASEVAC' request, if ever there was a limited availability of close air support elements?
Different assets would service each one surely?
 

MrBane

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#3
Gents,
Obviously a command element would be more than able to manage multiple calls for assistance over the net. And ideally would have assets available for any shout for help but would I be correct in stating that a request for CAS from 'Troops in Contact' would take precedence over a 'CASEVAC' request, if ever there was a limited availability of close air support elements?
It was a fairly regular occurrence to get nothing when shouting up for CAS for a TiC. There were less Gunslingers available than you'd expect and there was a TiC every day minimum so between refuel / maintenance / whatever and the rotation, you often went without.

I think a casevac always wins though. Normally the MERT would just tip up alone in the Chinook or sometimes you'd get PEDRO from the Americans coming in with their two Pavehawks.

Apologise for any errors in names, time now erroding memories.

Also worth noting that the Afghan mud houses were surprisingly resilient against 30mm and missiles, which had a habit of punching through and not detonating.

Made for an interesting garden ornament for one chap.
 
#4
Different assets would service each one surely?
Well quite.
After all, you wouldn't deploy fixed wing assests to escort MERT for example.
Just a pub type conversation that I was having with a mate. I'd have thought that TIC would take priority over CASEVAC. That's all bud.
 
#5
It was a fairly regular occurrence to get nothing when shouting up for CAS for a TiC. There were less Gunslingers available than you'd expect and there was a TiC every day minimum so between refuel / maintenance / whatever and the rotation, you often went without.

I think a casevac always wins though. Normally the MERT would just tip up alone in the Chinook or sometimes you'd get PEDRO from the Americans coming in with their two Pavehawks.

Apologise for any errors in names, time now erroding memories.

Also worth noting that the Afghan mud houses were surprisingly resilient against 30mm and missiles, which had a habit of punching through and not detonating.

Made for an interesting garden ornament for one chap.
I'd heard about mud walls being resilient to 30mil, but I didn't know that they could withstand a missile strike!
 

MrBane

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#6
Well quite.
After all, you wouldn't deploy fixed wing assests to escort MERT for example.
Just a pub type conversation that I was having with a mate. I'd have thought that TIC would take priority over CASEVAC. That's all bud.
On every occasion we had to call for a CASEVAC which was too often, they always arrived alone with no offensive support.

The only time the two coincided was because Gunslinger was already on the scene when we needed the MERT.

MERT whizz in low (just above the tree line) and if they get shot at they just **** off again and you lose it. They won't land under contact whereas PEDRO would and those crazy bastards would actively look for a contact with the second unit flying top cover whilst the first came in to land and collect. They didn't give a shit.
 

MrBane

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#7
I'd heard about mud walls being resilient to 30mil, but I didn't know that they could withstand a missile strike!
Didn't withstand as such, just didn't seem to make them detonate on contact with the wall. It makes a lovely new window and on two occasions came out the other side making a patio door before burying itself in a ditch.

Very strange.
 

The_Duke

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#8
It could be either one with a priority - depending on priorities!

High risk urgent casevac but the TIC is stable for now? Prioritise caevac.

TIC a nightmare and casevac lower risk or can be delayed? Prioritise TIC.

All fluid and situation dependent.

Caveat - long time ago doing Air Ops, may have changed.
 
#9
I’m pretty sure that everything worked in conjunction to provide the necessary air assets required for support. If they weren’t available ground ops were changed or cancelled to work within those constraints. I was told MERT always had 2 x AH support.
 
#10
On every occasion we had to call for a CASEVAC which was too often, they always arrived alone with no offensive support.

The only time the two coincided was because Gunslinger was already on the scene when we needed the MERT.

MERT whizz in low (just above the tree line) and if they get shot at they just **** off again and you lose it. They won't land under contact whereas PEDRO would and those crazy bastards would actively look for a contact with the second unit flying top cover whilst the first came in to land and collect. They didn't give a shit.
Could that be because of the different type of aircraft used by MERT/PEDRO and it's vulnerability, rather than SOPs etc?
 
#11
It could be either one with a priority - depending on priorities!

High risk urgent casevac but the TIC is stable for now? Prioritise caevac.

TIC a nightmare and casevac lower risk or can be delayed? Prioritise TIC.

All fluid and situation dependent.

Caveat - long time ago doing Air Ops, may have changed.
You have word for word practically said what my mate said. He stated that TIC have a more realistic chance than a T2 casualty, because they may be able to win the fire fight or to break contact for example.
 
#12
One of the highest priorities is the R+R plot.
 
#14
Could that be because of the different type of aircraft used by MERT/PEDRO and it's vulnerability, rather than SOPs etc?
MERT used to be chinook - it would normally come with an Apache escort or 2 x Ugly C/S.

Pedro was in 2 x Blackhawks. They would be mutually supporting so would be more ‘aggresive’ In their approach. This was also due to the fact that they were crewed by US PJs who are mental bastards.
 

MrBane

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#15
MERT used to be chinook - it would normally come with an Apache escort or 2 x Ugly C/S.

Pedro was in 2 x Blackhawks. They would be mutually supporting so would be more ‘aggresive’ In their approach. This was also due to the fact that they were crewed by US PJs who are mental bastards.
I've told it before, but we got Pedro in for injured bravos. They hadn't attacked us, they'd been stopped by an ANA checkpoint and when they tried to run got slotted to ****. Turns out the car was full of opium resin.

Pedro lands, we drag a fat, bleeding and vomming body over and they take him on. Door gunner shouts 'Hostile or friendly?'. I shout back hostile and he promptly right hooks the guy in the face.

Medical care at it's best!
 
#16
Pedro was in 2 x Blackhawks. They would be mutually supporting so would be more ‘aggresive’ In their approach. This was also due to the fact that they were crewed by US PJs who are mental bastards.
A friend from my town was US Army reserve and at 61 was put active and deployed with a unit of HH-60M "Mikes" He was talking about how the Army Mikes had red crosses on the sides and flew unarmed so had to be escorted by a gunship. He said the USAF Pedros had no red crosses and were armed and could go without a gunship escort if needed. Not sure but this might play a role in speed in sending assistance.
 
#17
A friend from my town was US Army reserve and at 61 was put active and deployed with a unit of HH-60M "Mikes" He was talking about how the Army Mikes had red crosses on the sides and flew unarmed so had to be escorted by a gunship. He said the USAF Pedros had no red crosses and were armed and could go without a gunship escort if needed. Not sure but this might play a role in speed in sending assistance.
Interesting point there. Medics can be armed to protect themselves and their patients. Medics are also identified by their Red Cross arm band. It seems strange that the same protection can’t be afforded to vehicles marked with a Red Cross.
 

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