Prince Andrew Accused of Underage Sex Acts

Your original post was:

"Even then its a complicated relationship as the US did provide the UK with nuclear technology, as really the only other country to have access to it at that time."

By 1962 the UK, France and the Soviet Union had all developed nuclear weapons of their own without assistance from the US.
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg certainly assisted.....
 
My thoughts on the matter:

I've followed the Epstein case extensively. I've written 'essays' on it on a couple of forums. I've read through and grepped and ctr+f'd and converted more documents (that could read redacted parts by doing so), than any sane man. Hundreds and hundreds of hours. Yeah, I'm a bit autistic. So far I've got a pretty good handle on things, as much as anyone can, because the American justice system is pretty random. I'm on forums with actual American lawyers, and even they haven't predicted a tenth of what has unfolded.

One thing everyone foresaw was the fact that Epstein would kill himself. No prizes there. I'll just leave it at that.

Prince Andrew.

I've met people like him that can belittle you and spoil your day. I'm not even a fan of the royals. So not a fan of Prince Andrew either. I give respect for his time served, ironically, as bait. And here he is again, being used as bait.

Epstein had a blackmail racket going on. I won't get in to mossad stuff. Who cares. But he went from a humble maths teacher to a financial adviser to billionaires pretty damn quick after he met Ghislaine Maxwell. No one really knows where he got his wealth from, but around the almost exact time that G's daddy Robert drowned after falling off his yacht, G met Epstein. It's an interesting timeline if you care to look. All that money siphoned off and never recovered to my understanding, and Epstein moves up a rung or two from being a New York maths teacher.

Epstein also had a system for recruiting, not just underage girls, but those seeking money for ventures who could offer something in return. Jacques Cousteau's daughter or grand-daughter was one such person. Ghislaine set up a company for conservation of the oceans (Terra or something?) where it would be a new country kind of thing and outside of normal jurisdiction. These people were thinking big. Ghislaine could pilot a submarine as well as she could pilot a helicopter, so it's said. I'm going from memory here, so take with a pinch of salt.

Politicians, actors, comedians, royalty; all fair game to Epstein and his operation. Keep in mind that Robert Maxwell was a Czech Jew that had more than a few claims made he was with mossad. I don't know. It's not important. But there was a set up going on there greater than a pedo ring, it was a multi-level sting operation.

Once again, Prince Andrew is playing Decoy Duck and bait to the real hot stuff. Probably the Clintons, maybe Trump. He is the gift that keeps on giving. This is a very American based operation, yet the only people apart from Epstein (who is dead) that are feeling the heat are British (G has dual French Nationality I believe). Americans both revere and despise the British, depending. But it is all good drama. If you were going to pick one person to take the heat off, then you couldn't ask for more than Prince Andrew.

There was a hierarchy with the Epstein operation. Ghislaine might have been second in command, but she had a small cadre of lieutenants that did her bidding for her. Nadia Marcinkova was one and Sarah Kellen was the other, and they were top girls above even the others. Nadia was sold to Epstein at the age of 15 from a Eastern European village, so the lore goes. She learned to fly and is now a commercial airline pilot. Sara Kellen married a NASCAR driver and has her own interior design business. They are trying to run from this as hard as they can. Both of them have received massive payouts in the form that Giuffre got not to incriminate anyone. They may still come to court. There are even now serious attempts to bring them to book. They get off the hook, they get put back on the hook. It's not inconceivable that whoever dug Epstein up only to bury him again * might still get their claws in to them. They are accused of not just grooming but also of sexual assaults as well.

* Epstein got away with his 'underage prostitute solicitation' charges and served 'time' in an open prison where he was let out for half the day to go work in his office, where it is proven he molested more underage girls. He got off with it. So who was instrumental in bringing him back to answer for his crimes? And who was it that had him bumped off?

There are thousands of pages of court documents in this case. All kinds of things that show the character of the people involved. Much of it is duplicated, a lot of it redacted; but a picture has been painted in my mind anyway.

Veronica Giuffre (Prince Andrew's accuser) wrote a novel in the style of Jackie Collins. It is both illuminating as a document of what she supposedly experienced, and titillating in its salubriousness of what she fantasised had happened. It wouldn't be a stretch to call her a fantasist. You can find it in the released documents. Here is a link -
The Billionaire Playboy's Club:

A memoir written about a young women, caught in Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring. Unpublished, it was submitted as evidence against Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's Madame, in 2015. These court documents have recently been unsealed by a judge and made public.

I read the whole thing and whilst most of it seems to be document, a lot of it seems to be absolute fantasy.

This is a girl that relished her involvement with these people. Abused and groomed she may have been, but she was still a player, stalking the long game, and now the chickens come home to roost.

There is so much about this case, on so many levels, that just does not add up. For certain it is some kind of internecine squabble among the elites for either a power-grab or some kind of defensive maneuver for further down the line.

One thing that stands out, and many have noticed it, is how these girls that were being abused, not only went back for more, week after week after week, but they recruited other girls for the abuse too. It was a pyramid scheme of epic proportions, but hey, when you are getting a couple of hundred bucks on top of that other couple of hundred bucks, and you don't even have to 'work' for it, well hey, everyone's a player. I make no judgements. But it was a system that worked, with all of the girls involved pimping out other girls to become involved later.

These were people (Epstein, Maxwell, Giuffre) that knew how to play people the way some people know how to play the bagpipes. Virtuosos. And Giuffre (as groomed and as abused as she may have been) was no less of a player of the game. As we are seeing now.

Just a bit of background to set the scene.

Back to Prince Andrew.

He's the chump, the mark, the 'social proof' for Epstein et al. And if they had any real dirt on him or if he did anything really naughty, this wouldn't be playing out like it is now. This is all they've got. Did Randy Andy get caught with his pants down? Maybe. Is there some kind of technicality that he will get caught up on? Maybe.

There were a LOT of People in Epstein's circle. His black book contains nearly 2000 people of influence. Apparently there were a dozen tel. no.s for Andrew. Jeffrey Epstein had at least 12 different numbers for Prince Andrew in his little black book, according to a new lawsuit

This is what I think the relationship was:

Epstein was a money man. He would invest in certain ventures and he would put people together to invest in certain ventures. He's actually quite an articulate and decent salesman in fact. You can find a talk of his on the internet where he sells a modern day system for medical diagnosis all centralised on a database that can be accessed by doctors everywhere. He's impressive. He's a bullshitter's bullshitter. And even though people knew they were being bullshitted they couldn't help but go along with it, sometimes investing millions. I think Andrew either invested a substantial amount in Epstein's hare-brained schemes (unlikely), or more likely was used as 'bait' to bring in bigger investors once the schemes had the Duke's Royal imprimatur.

It's one thing for Andrew to glory in the pomp and circumstance, and who can blame him eh? He did his time and played his part. But where he really liked to soak it all up was in New York, the largest residence in New York in fact, and he was, in fact, the Duke of York. How quaint. No wonder Americans loved him.

He probably made a few good deals around the place, or brokered other deals as he peddled his influence. Another day, another dollar. You got to pick a pocket or two, my boy...

These recent events have kind of shocked me. I think it's massively disproportionate for the firm to throw him under the bus so early on, and not abide by the 'deny everything' doctrine. But I guess they already tried that.

I think Andrew's greatest punishment has already been meted out and this has got to hurt.

No matter what foolishness he got up to with Epstein et al, he would have been very careful and very aware of who he still was, and not to get involved with anything too deep. He was both living it up as the Grand Old Duke of York, basking in that particular glory, all the while maybe securing future finances. And that is where Epstein probably got him more than any other pressure point.

Randy Andy had his fill of beautiful women. In his prime he was second in line to the throne of the greatest monarchy on planet earth. He was handsome, and he had courage. Those are giddy heights. But stars fade...

Epstein provided something, and it wasn't underage girls. Not Andy's thing. He facilitated the upkeep of Andrew's ego. And more than that, promised the upkeep of his lifestyle in the manner he had become accustomed to. Financially. This was never about sex, it was always about money.

Someone made the point earlier that Andrew is a bit naive in his way. Surrounded by boot-lickers and yes-men. Probably not far off the mark.

For me, I'll give him a pass. At the same time I will classify those such as Giuffre et al, as sharks that swam in the same waters.

It will be interesting to see how Ghislaine plays this. I guess seeing Epstein get necked is a warning sign for her not to get too gobby about stuff.

Oh, another thing that I predicted, in my mystic meg fashion, was the two security guards that night getting off without any charges against them. Must have been fun to be on duty that night, when they murdered Epstein.

Prince Andrew will face his greatest test of character now. Whether he is guilty or innocent, whether there is even any charge or crime to be answered for.

Naive, obnoxious, unlikeable. Abandoned.

Times like these really test your mettle.

Who knows, he might even look at his reflection in the mirror and see the 'man' that stands before him.

He might even atone for his sins, and make good his tresspasses.

---

I've seen the game these people were playing. Andy was by far not the worst of them. He is being made a scapegoat. I'd love nothing more to see him be fully vindicated and absolved of any guilt.

If he is guilty, so be it.

The longer this circus rolls on through town, the harder it gets to have a fair 'trial'.

It's damage limitation now.

Times like these, you really find out who your friends are.

After seeing the nest of vipers he was swimming in, I actually wish him well.
 
Grooming is the element of drawing them in
Threats are further down the line

Start with befriending, make a bond, give some presents.

Alcohol and drugs can be two fold - the groomer is ‘giving’ the victim something, it can be a secret they keep to themselves. It can also incapacitate, remove inhibitions and make the victim dependant
Money is a gift - but then it also has to be earned

A ‘poor’ groomer preys on the vulnerable victim who is unloved, or dependant. They have a ‘lifestyle’ to offer that can be as basic as paying some attention rather than ignoring the victim
A ‘rich’ groomer has a higher ‘lifestyle’ to offer, luxury, travel, glamour etc

Both may be reprehensible - one looks less seedy than the other

Sex can be exchanged in a number of ways:
In a relationship two people provide emotional support, perhaps one is the bread winner and the other is the homemaker
In prostitution the sex is exchanged for money but no further relationship
In grooming the gifts or money may be given but the obligation is to be under control and pay back in other ways
A good summary & shows how things are not perhaps as straightforward as they seem, from the 'unabused' standpoint. Especially the 'painting your future' threat aspect.
 
Mrs Clubs tells me that he (Andrew) was a single man up for it at the time of the alleged offence. The girl in question was 17 going on 21 and certainly knew what she was doing if said offence took place. And she was certainly old enough to say no if she objected.

The cynic in me says she was "banking" the experience to cash in on at a later date, which she is now doing. Fair play.

Bitch.
She may well have known what she was doing but at 17 she was not legally competent to consent.
 
Finally he has to stop wearing the Commando dagger he’s not really entitled to.
Not really entitled to his wings either as he didn't do All Arms P Company and serve with an Airborne unit. The light bulb on his sleeve at the most. The same with Charles but as he is Colonel in Chief of the Parachute Regiment he can wing it.
 
Not really entitled to his wings either as he didn't do All Arms P Company and serve with an Airborne unit. The light bulb on his sleeve at the most. The same with Charles but as he is Colonel in Chief of the Parachute Regiment he can wing it.
King George VI and Winston both wore unentitled RAF pilots wings when in RAF uniform. Imagine Boris sticking a set up.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
And I don't think many of us saw the royal family as racist until the attitude of at least some of them towards Harry's (slightly) dusky maiden began filtering into the media.
Stories without any verifiable evidence are just stories.

Harry's resignation/sacking/whatever made folk realise that there was a fair bit of nastiness going on at the top end of the Mall.
That's quite a leap there or maybe you're just easily swayed by whomever shouts loudest.
 
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg certainly assisted.....

My understanding is that they, and others, weren't critical for the SU development program. The Soviet's had scientists and engineers quite capable of independent development. The outside information was useful, but not necessary, for the SU programme and helped shorten the timescale by indicating which methods were useful and which were not, thus avoiding unnecessary experimentation.
 
I remember the almost universal respect and affection in which the royals were held prior to the stories about Charles' treatment of Diana (and I'm not even thinking about any conspiracy stories regarding her death). That respect was misplaced, but it was there.

Their ratings took a nosedive when……….
Ahem,

 
I remember the almost universal respect and affection in which the royals were held prior to the stories about Charles' treatment of Diana (and I'm not even thinking about any conspiracy stories regarding her death). That respect was misplaced, but it was there.

Their ratings took a nosedive when the stories of Charles' dalliances came out. That might have been fair or it might not. Perhaps she was a waste of space, but if so then she was a highly popular waste of space. The rumours (however unjustified) of royal involvement in her death did some more damage, purely on the principle of "if you throw enough mud".

And I don't think many of us saw the royal family as racist until the attitude of at least some of them towards Harry's (slightly) dusky maiden began filtering into the media. Harry's resignation/sacking/whatever made folk realise that there was a fair bit of nastiness going on at the top end of the Mall.

Except of course
We have to ignore that they went out of their way to welcome her - making extra efforts to ensure no one felt discrimination was a factor

The Queen already has non white relatives

Many didnt realise Meghan was non white until it was pointed out

The racial slurs amounted to a queery as to the childs colouring - on a par with asking will it be blue eyed or ginger which post fact Meghan has decided was terrible racism - supported by BLM activists - wheras 99.9% of mixed raced couples who commented ""well we asked our selves the same things in normal conversation.

Couple to that other demonstrably untrue facts shes come out with and one cant help but think that recollaction may vary as when Meghans version of events was formed she was sat at her typewriter.


Any stuff about "Yeah but Diana and Meghan were this or that", even if true, won't repair the reputation of the royal family in general and the Queen in particular.
I agree - but a lot of the damage in relation to those 2 is because extremely rose tinted goggles are applied to the pair of them by many.

See the Meghan hounded out of the country by racist brits

Not at all - nobody cared - she was a media darling then (like di) the media turned on her - the bulk of public opinion went against her - not so much because of what she did - or because of the media attacks - but because her actions were ignored and criticism became racism in the eyes of the usual crowd.
It is sad but true that Meghan was caught up in the flack from the woke playing the race card - long before she did it herself and i will accept that just maybe as opinion of her was coloured by this - perhaps her perceptions were coloured by a backlash she was told was because shes non white?


Yes, there's still a generally positive public attitude towards royalty, but it's nothing like it was 40 years ago. And I'm not sure the Queen's dumping her son with quite such a bump will endear her either, even to those who agree that he's a total idiot.

On the other hand if they hadent dropped Andy it would only be a matter of time before facts were distorted and the accusation made Andy wasnt sacked but Meghans was because shes Brown / female etc

Look at the furore of Archie not being titled prince -

We may well be looking at more than one type of damage limitation.

edited for some truly mong spellings - i dare say theres other mistakes - but that only highlights how dumb the ones corrected were
 
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Because arrse is seen as a mahoosive penis in the internet world (remember complaints to police, Parliament and Chief of Staff) and needs to project it onto someone to feel better about itself. It is only a handful of people on this site who behave like demented apes like you but unfortunately the whole site is tarred with the same brush.

So why are you here - other than to troll and double down on its mahoosive penis factor - why not just **** off to somewhere where you will not only be more suited but also more welcome
 
Except of course
We have to ignore that they went out of their way to welcome her - making extra efforts to ensure no one felt discrimination was a factor

The Queen already has non white relatives

Many didnt realise Meghan was non white until it was pointed out

The racial slurs amounted to a queery as to the childs colouring - on a par with asking will it be blue eyed or ginger which post fact Meghan has decided was terrible racism - supported by BLM activists - wheras 99.9% of mixed raced couples who commented ""well we asked our selves the same things in normal conversation.

Couple to that other demonstrably untrue facts shes come out with and one cant help but think that recollaction may vary as when Meghans version of events was formed she was sat at her typewriter.



I agree - but a lot of the damage in relation to those 2 is because extremely rose tinted goggles are applied to the pair of them by many.

See the Meghan hounded out of the country by racist brits

Not at all - nobody cared - she was a media darling then (like di) the media turned on her - the bulk of public opinion went against her - not so much because of what she did - or because of the media attacks - but because her actions were ignored and criticism became racism in the eyes of the usual crowd.
It is sad but true that Meghan was caught up in the flack from the woke playing the race card - long before she did it herself and i will accept that just maybe as opinion of her was coloured by this - perhaps her perceptions were coloured by a backlash she was told was because shes non white?




On the other hand if they hadent dropped Andy it would only be a matter of time before facts were distorted and the accusation made Andy wasnt sacked but Meghans was because shes Brown / female etc

Look at the furore of Archie not being titled prince -

We may well be looking at more than one type of damage limitation.

edited for some truly mong spellings - i dare say theres other mistakes - but that only highlights how dumb the ones corrected were

We'll come onto punctuation and the correct use, in fact any use, of apostrophes later. :)
 
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