President Obama Signs Executive Order to benefit his whole veteran community.

#21
Pull yourself together man, the UK has the best care in the community in the world. The facilities for sleeping rough and begging are up there with Mumbai.
But there isn't as much opportunity for doing it as there is in the States.
 
#22
It an Excellent thing, but Why did he wait until he was in a reelection campaign to issue it? why not 3 years ago when it might have saved more lives?
Getting gay soldiers out of the closet was a higher policy priority. It's a clever move that plays to his base that used the suffering of the millitary as a stick to beat Bush with, it'll also play with swing voters.
 
#23
But there isn't as much opportunity for doing it as there is in the States.
The Septics are strange folk, they have a full blown socialized solution for veteran care that's rated as world class. Panhandling and providing doorway draft exclusion services for needy retail properties is left more to civilian enterprise.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#24
Fair play to the man, this comprehensive announcement certainly looks impressive.

Fact Sheet: President Obama Signs Executive Order to Improve Access to Mental Health Services for Veterans, Service Members, and Military Families | The White House

That's what you call a Military Covenant Mr Cameron!
Nope, that's what you call securing votes. No need to point it out to Cameron. Just as soon as the chips look down for him, he'll pull somethinng similar out from his 'Desperate for votes Top Hat'.
 
#25
Nope, that's what you call securing votes. No need to point it out to Cameron. Just as soon as the chips look down for him, he'll pull somethinng similar out from his 'Desperate for votes Top Hat'.
Think it's more likely to be a bung to pensioners in Dave's case.
 
#26
Given the number of us pensioners around, I suspect you are right. If pensioners ever got their act together and put their own candidates in for election, we would have the biggest majority in history.
 
#27
Given the number of us pensioners around, I suspect you are right. If pensioners ever got their act together and put their own candidates in for election, we would have the biggest majority in history.
Imagine a Britain run by pensioners. Sweet Mother of God, no!
 
#29
Well given the demographics that's what you are going to have a decade or two down the line.
It reminds me of the old line: children are the future - unless we stop them now!
 
#30
Well given the demographics that's what you are going to have a decade or two down the line.
Perhaps for the next decade anyway. I'm a pensioner BTW.

British veterans (I'm one - and wounded WOAS) can only wish they had the care and programmes available to them that their US contemporaries have. Bush did a tremendous amount of good to better the veterans' lot, more than any of his predecessors, Obama is continuing the movement, on a much more modest scale, in areas found lacking, well done him - though he IS a couple of years late!

Posters who spend an inordinate amount of time on this site denigrating all things American should, perhaps, make better use of their time by writing/lobbying their MPs urging them to adopt a VA system and GI Bill similar to the US's. Good luck with that though!
 
#31
...
Posters who spend an inordinate amount of time on this site denigrating all things American should, perhaps, make better use of their time by writing/lobbying their MPs urging them to adopt a VA system and GI Bill similar to the US's. Good luck with that though!
Posters who mistake criticizing the daffy parts of US politics for anti-Americanism should perhaps consider what they are banging on about.

I agree with you on this, the VA system is admirable. I thought one of the best proposals at the time of Barrycare was to extend it accross more of the population by covering family members which would provide a huge incentive for service. It is genuinely excellent, a world leader in innovative clinical practice and actually far most cost effective than the chaotic market solution most Americans are being screwed by. This could have been a net good greater than Bob Dole's insurance reform scheme, but my industry would have fought it tooth and nail as it would mean real cost controls and the end of our gravy train.

The GI Bills were mostly the work of those big government advocates FDR and Ike of course and dangerously close to wealth spreading socialism by today's standards in the US. It's hard to imagine those sweeping bills being passed today, it is so not Ayn Rand to give ordinary servicemen a leg up, it was one of the biggest corrections to inequality in US history and played a pivotal part in the 60s boom years.

Both my father and grandfather had severe PTSD after service, Both spent time in mental health facilities. The latter was also shot, gassed and nearly buried fatally by shell fire. Neither were treated well or saw 50. Britain has a terrible record with veterans, it's practically traditional.

It's similar post WWII impulses that got the NHS going in the UK and that's the rub for it's main customers are civilians and pensioners who rather shamefully often aren't particularly grateful to servicemen at least not to the extent of seeing their own care reduced. This is unfortunate as wounded young men have different needs and the military hospitals that they ruthlessly closed recently won't be replaced.

The same pensioners in the UK are also becoming the main drain on state funds just as there are fewer an fewer young folk to tax. The political consequences of this are fairly obvious, especially for the Tories with their elderly base. Intergeneration transfers I think will become as hot a topic as immigration in the UK and young folks may become more reliable voters as a result or they are going to be shafted by their seniors.

Septics have a lesser problem with a greying population, they at least breed at over replacement rate and have the space and admiration for folk trying to better their lot that makes integrating migrants more feasible.
 
#32
But what about the answer to Crabbie's question? Why didn't Bush take this measure, if it's so essential that the President of a country at war does? Why 'Obama hasn't=BAD' when 'Bush didn't≠BAD’?
You'll notice if you bother to read it Bush did take extraordinary measures at the time. then read the Obama Plan. it isn't as Historic as Bushes efforts but improves upon them with the lessons learned since.

I can tell you that the difference between 2004 and treatment available for PTSD and 2005 when we returned from our 1st tour changed dramatically. there were while in Baghdad interviews we went through with doctors and then while demobilization, 303 days after demob, 60 days, 90 days and so on. Counselors came to the unit from the VA Hospital as well to talk to the troops.

But your right only Crabtastic knows what hes talking about, not the guys who've actually served in US forces and who've actually used the VA facilities.


If you really want to get into the weeds Obama has also has demanded TRICARE co pay costs go higher for Active Duty, retired and reserve personnel with no increase in COLA since he has been in office (Used to be free for Milpers). He floated an idea for combat injured to co pay for their treatment as a possible way to reduces costs- that was shouted down Making Joe pay for being wounded because the Gov sent them. So he isnt an angel for veterans either

Obamas plan hires peer to peer counselors, demands 800 mental health hires (which has been an issue getting more qualified pers to work for the Gov) sets up a few standards like the 24 hour rule to talk with a real counselor.

There is also still a issue

You're wounded

The Army or Marines say you have a 30% disability because your left arm is gone to just below the elbow
The DVA sets your disability at 50-60%

The Army fights that as it comes out of their budget and will refuse to recognize the VA assessment. This has been ongoing since WWII.
 
#33
I agree with you on this, the VA system is admirable. I thought one of the best proposals at the time of Barrycare was to extend it accross more of the population by covering family members which would provide a huge incentive for service. It is genuinely excellent, a world leader in innovative clinical practice and actually far most cost effective than the chaotic market solution most Americans are being screwed by. This could have been a net good greater than Bob Dole's insurance reform scheme, but my industry would have fought it tooth and nail as it would mean real cost controls and the end of our gravy train.
Family Members of service personnel have been covered since before Myself and Obama were born, under the DEERS and TRICARE programs.
 
#34
You'll notice if you bother to read it Bush did take extraordinary measures at the time. then read the Obama Plan. it isn't as Historic as Bushes efforts but improves upon them with the lessons learned since.

I can tell you that the difference between 2004 and treatment available for PTSD and 2005 when we returned from our 1st tour changed dramatically. there were while in Baghdad interviews we went through with doctors and then while demobilization, 303 days after demob, 60 days, 90 days and so on. Counselors came to the unit from the VA Hospital as well to talk to the troops.

But your right only Crabtastic knows what hes talking about, not the guys who've actually served in US forces and who've actually used the VA facilities.


If you really want to get into the weeds Obama has also has demanded TRICARE co pay costs go higher for Active Duty, retired and reserve personnel with no increase in COLA since he has been in office (Used to be free for Milpers). He floated an idea for combat injured to co pay for their treatment as a possible way to reduces costs- that was shouted down Making Joe pay for being wounded because the Gov sent them. So he isnt an angel for veterans either

Obamas plan hires peer to peer counselors, demands 800 mental health hires (which has been an issue getting more qualified pers to work for the Gov) sets up a few standards like the 24 hour rule to talk with a real counselor.

There is also still a issue

You're wounded

The Army or Marines say you have a 30% disability because your left arm is gone to just below the elbow
The DVA sets your disability at 50-60%

The Army fights that as it comes out of their budget and will refuse to recognize the VA assessment. This has been ongoing since WWII.
I don't know how authoritative Crabbie's view is but I do know that you've just failed to answer the question for the second time.

Can giving credit where it's due really be so painful to you?
 
#35
Point is the inordinate amount of time some waste criticizing the USA would be better spent lobbying for better programs for British veterans, American veterans are pretty well covered!

As GB pointed out families of service personnel are covered medically, as are the spouses of retired US veterans.
 
#36
I don't know how authoritative Crabbie's view is but I do know that you've just failed to answer the question for the second time.

Can giving credit where it's due really be so painful to you?
Ok since you're slow Bush DID. Hes done far more for Veterans and active duty reserve healthcare than ANY president Before or Since. All Obama has done is add to that if you could be bothered to read his order.
 
#37
Point is the inordinate amount of time some waste criticizing the USA would be better spent lobbying for better programs for British veterans, American veterans are pretty well covered!

As GB pointed out families of service personnel are covered medically, as are the spouses of retired US veterans.
Busterdog -
in addition to medical care dependents of active duty personnel get free dental care at any military clinic. It is supposed to be "space available" but over a number of years never had an appointment cancelled (except for the day a young Coastie got hit in the face with a very large chain hoist and all docs were rebuilding her jaw).

Currently there is also medical coverage for some former spouses of retirees ("some" is based on years of marriage etc) if the former spouse does not have other insurance.
 
#38
Ok since you're slow Bush DID. Hes done far more for Veterans and active duty reserve healthcare than ANY president Before or Since. All Obama has done is add to that if you could be bothered to read his order.
If Obama had to 'add to' it how could Bush already have done what Obama just did?

It's fairly simple, either Obama's announcement is something that didn't exist before or it's not. Which is it?
 
#39
If Obama had to 'add to' it how could Bush already have done what Obama just did?

It's fairly simple, either Obama's announcement is something that didn't exist before or it's not. Which is it?
FFS you really just want to play stupid and argue don't you?

Bush did more for the VA than any president before or Since with funding and initiatives. His funding ended FY2009 with ths Highest finding in VA History.

Now in 2012, 3 years later Obama issues an order that helps improve the initiatives Bush started with 3 years hindsight. It isnt earth shaking changes. Again if you bother to read it, but of course you wont read it.
 
#40
Busterdog -
in addition to medical care dependents of active duty personnel get free dental care at any military clinic. It is supposed to be "space available" but over a number of years never had an appointment cancelled (except for the day a young Coastie got hit in the face with a very large chain hoist and all docs were rebuilding her jaw).

Currently there is also medical coverage for some former spouses of retirees ("some" is based on years of marriage etc) if the former spouse does not have other insurance.
Not having been divorced I had forgotten that element.

Funny thing is in 1981 we were promised free care for life if we did our 20/30 years in as compensation for lousy pay, food, billets, stations. TRICARE ended that. Another part of the VA is besides correctly handling those with Service Connected Disability, injuries now they handle any Vet for damn near any reason. I' been in the Pharmacy line and 80 year old's are getting Free Viagra . You can't tell me that's a service disability, but the tax payers allow it. Myself I only go for Service related, for anything else I use my Civilian Doctor
 

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