Pregnancy/maternity in the TA

#1
Could anyone point me in the right direction for pregnancy/maternity regulations for TA soldiers, have looked everywhere for guidance but have only found information for full time reserves. Have also gone through chain of command but as I'm in an infantry unit it's not something they routinely come across, this is my second pregnancy and don't want a repeat of last time where people guessed the rules and then turned out to be wrong.
 
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EScotia

Guest
#2
Not sure what rules or regulations you are looking for but I'll have a stab at it (pun intended). As PAP 10 applies to the regular army and the army reserve:

Chap 1 - 3
c. P4 – Medically fit for duty within the limitations of pregnancy. Pregnant personnel are graded P4 and attract a JMES deployment standard of Medically not deployable (MND).

Chap 1- 10
Pregnancy
0130. The Environmental and Medical Support Grading of E6 is only to be used where an officer or soldier has formally advised their employer of pregnancy (eg using F Med 790) and written consent given for JMES to be displayed as E6 or a contemporaneous record made in clinical notes confirming that permission is granted. Regardless of whether the grading of E6 is used, the deployability coding is reduced to MND (Temp).

Chap 2 - 3
TA Re-Engagement
0208. When a member of the TA applies to re-engage, he/she is to be medically examined. Part 3 of the AF E7546 must only be signed by a medical officer.
 
#3
Could anyone point me in the right direction for pregnancy/maternity regulations for TA soldiers, have looked everywhere for guidance but have only found information for full time reserves. Have also gone through chain of command but as I'm in an infantry unit it's not something they routinely come across, this is my second pregnancy and don't want a repeat of last time where people guessed the rules and then turned out to be wrong.
Surely if you knew the last time the rules were wrong then you must have known the correct ones.
 
#4
Could anyone point me in the right direction for pregnancy/maternity regulations for TA soldiers, have looked everywhere for guidance but have only found information for full time reserves. Have also gone through chain of command but as I'm in an infantry unit it's not something they routinely come across, this is my second pregnancy and don't want a repeat of last time where people guessed the rules and then turned out to be wrong.
I'm going to get spanked for this, but why don't you ask your doctor instead of asking on a random internet site?

Psst, I don't care actually. If I thought you were for real, I'd help.
 
#5
I'm going to get spanked for this, but why don't you ask your doctor instead of asking on a random internet site?
Bend over.

The likelihood is that her doctor won't have a scooby about the TA. The TA don't have access to Army doctors so everything's in the hands of her clerks and her CO.

Re the P4 grading, by the time she gets seen by an Army doctor, she'll probably have had the kid. Then she'll have an equally long wait to get the grading removed.

The common sense approach is for her to advise her CO of the pregnancy (FMed 790) who then says "Take a year off, I'll keep you on strength for 18 months. If you don't come back to me by then, either to resume training or extend the leave of absence, make arrangements to hand your kit in." He can do this without going through the rigmarole of organising a visit to an Army doctor.

It's not really sensible to do otherwise. Health and Safety legislation requires that unless a pregnant woman and her unborn or newborn child can be guaranteed to be safe*, time off with pay has to be granted. The downer in being in the TA is that she won't get Army pay while sitting at home, though she may be eligible for Bounty (CO's decision).


*This includes any form of strenuous work, physiological and psychological stress and working nights.
 
#6
Bend over.

The likelihood is that her doctor won't have a scooby about the TA. The TA don't have access to Army doctors so everything's in the hands of her clerks and her CO.

Re the P4 grading, by the time she gets seen by an Army doctor, she'll probably have had the kid. Then she'll have an equally long wait to get the grading removed.

The common sense approach is for her to advise her CO of the pregnancy (FMed 790) who then says "Take a year off, I'll keep you on strength for 18 months. If you don't come back to me by then, either to resume training or extend the leave of absence, make arrangements to hand your kit in." He can do this without going through the rigmarole of organising a visit to an Army doctor.

It's not really sensible to do otherwise. Health and Safety legislation requires that unless a pregnant woman and her unborn or newborn child can be guaranteed to be safe*, time off with pay has to be granted. The downer in being in the TA is that she won't get Army pay while sitting at home, though she may be eligible for Bounty (CO's decision).


*This includes any form of strenuous work, physiological and psychological stress and working nights.
I knew you'd turn up eventually Old Man xxx
 
#7
I'm going to get spanked for this, but why don't you ask your doctor instead of asking on a random internet site?

Psst, I don't care actually. If I thought you were for real, I'd help.
Friend of mines wife was in a TA infantry unit, her GP had no idea about Army rules, the RMO was some doddery bugger 80 miles away, and the clerks didn't really have an idea where to start looking as it had never happened before. She attended until she was about 4 months gone (3 months keeping it to herself, one month of being fucked around) then dekitted because everyone was clueless and left

There's every chance there is a clerk here who might know at least where to start looking
 
#8
Interestingly, from TA Regs...

Maternity Leave
4.172. A female Officer, of any arm, who becomes pregnant, is entitled to unpaid maternity leave as laid down by the
Ministry of Defence (DRFC) or may elect to retire, resign or transfer to RARO as laid down in Part 9 of this Chapter.
But there's no equivalent mention for the rank and file.

There is, however, a section in the CO's Certificate of Efficiency that allows for a woman to be awarded Bounty if she has missed ITDs as a result of being pregnant, so it seems that pregnancy isn't a chargeable offence.
 
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EScotia

Guest
#9
Interestingly, from TA Regs...



But there's no equivalent mention for the rank and file.

There is, however, a section in the CO's Certificate of Efficiency that allows for a woman to be awarded Bounty if she has missed ITDs as a result of being pregnant, so it seems that pregnancy isn't a chargeable offence.
In my copy of TA Regs (up to Amdt 35) I did find:

ANNEX G TO CHAPTER 2
CERTIFICATE OF EFFICIENCY AND ATTENDANCE REGISTERS
(PARAS 2.058-2.059 AND 2.061-2.066 REFER)

9. Waivers. Commanding officers may apply to the appropriate one-star commander for the granting of a waiver in specific cases for those individuals who have attempted but not passed all MATT tests provided they have qualified for bounty in all other respects. Such waivers are to be reviewed annually and are not required for individuals who have been excused specific MATT tests for medical reasons or pregnancy.

Also

APPENDIX 1 TO ANNEX G TO CHAPTER 2
COMMANDING OFFICER’S CERTIFICATE OF EFFICIENCY
(PARAS 2.058-2.059 REFER)

2. Remarks: (insert any qualifying comments to explain variations from normal, e.g. such items as: extended training year, excused specific MATTs due to pregnancy, MATTs completed or passed at RTMC or during FTRS)

So it seems according to TA Regs if pregnant you can still train just can't do MATTs.

In practice, my last unit being a Med Regt, pregnant personnel attended training when/where they were able, did a suitable course instead of annual camp and were qualified for bounty before they went away until after the birth etc.
 
#10
Could anyone point me in the right direction for pregnancy/maternity regulations for TA soldiers, have looked everywhere for guidance but have only found information for full time reserves. Have also gone through chain of command but as I'm in an infantry unit it's not something they routinely come across, this is my second pregnancy and don't want a repeat of last time where people guessed the rules and then turned out to be wrong.
You can mobilise for an op tour when pregnant.... A Fijian managed it no problems...
 
#11
^ Misleading post, so less than **** all help - the woman didn't know she was pregnant.
 
#12
Thank you for your replies, most are very useful, especially the ones about certificate of efficiency and bounty. When I was pregnant last time I attended until I was a week overdue and returned five weeks after the birth because I was told I needed to get my days in although had to be unpaid training as I was on maternity leave from my civilian employer.
 
#13
Thank you for your replies, most are very useful, especially the ones about certificate of efficiency and bounty. When I was pregnant last time I attended until I was a week overdue and returned five weeks after the birth because I was told I needed to get my days in although had to be unpaid training as I was on maternity leave from my civilian employer.
I hope you've changed your unit. Only an idiot would allow you to attend that late in pregnancy. Also, WTF has maternity leave got to do with getting paid for training - it's none of the Army's business and not illegal. The only people who may be slightly miffed are your employers but there's nothing they can do about it because they're bound by legislation.

Your CoC can argue that you shouldn't turn up for training on health reasons (in which case you'd be sent away if you turned up) or they accept that you're fit enough to train, in which case you get paid the same as everybody else.

That's aside from the waiver of training for your Bounty which is clearly shown as an option on the Certificate of Efficiency.
 
#14
I hope you've changed your unit.


etc ...
That'll be why the OP was going on about no one knowing the rules first time round and asking here for a heads up
 
#15
^ Misleading post, so less than **** all help - the woman didn't know she was pregnant.
That was the whole point of it.... Why post about pregnancy matters on here? Do people not have their own brains than post on a forum asking questions like these? Bravo_Bravo are you the dad?
 
#16
Why post about pregnancy matters on here? Do people not have their own brains than post on a forum asking questions like these?
Most of the posts we come across are very definitely in the "Ask your admin staff, you're a nobber for asking on the internet" category. Occasionally, as in this case, the poster has done just that and received duff info. This is a TA-specific issue and a rare event at that so there's a good chance that the people dealing with it have no experience. (Caveat: if what we're told is true).

Hopefully, armed with a few snippets of information, she'll speak to her admin staff, quoting relevant clauses and they'll spend a little bit more time checking the facts.

Anyone receiving advice from ARRSE shouldn't treat it as Gospel but should use the information to ask informed questions. If you don't know the questions, you stand no chance of getting the right answer.

If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd want the following:
1. An FMed 790 to formally advise of the pregnancy.
2. A statement of the CO's policy toward pregnant women training (what training is permitted and what is not, at what stage of pregnancy do various training limitations kick in and the same for the post-natal period).
3. Given that the CO can waive some of the training requirements for Bounty, a statement of what training has to be done.
4. Confirmation that the CO is actually aware of the pregnancy as it's him who will be signing off the waivers.

(I'd also be contacting The Guinness Book of Records, The Lancet and the Vatican because if I became pregnant it'd be a bloody miracle).

Ideally, the OP should receive a letter from her CO along the lines of:

"Dear Navigation eagle,

Thank you for informing me of your pregnancy. In order to safeguard your forthcoming child, and following advice from the Medical Centre, I have decided that it would be unwise for you to attend field training exercises until at least xx months following the birth. I have also written to your OC detailing other activities that are to be avoided such as travelling in military vehicles other than coaches. I am happy for you to continue with activities of a generally sedentary nature and which do not involve physical effort up to xx months before the birth, after which you are not to attend for any training whatsoever until you produce a note from your GP confirming that you are sufficiently fit to resume training.

I am aware that you will have concerns regarding receipt of Bounty for this training year. You will be exempted from all training and fitness requirements other than the classroom-based MATTS which, according to your OC's training programme, can be completed before the cut-off date for your training. Your OC will inform subject instructors of your condition so that you will not be required to do physical aspects of the training such as First Aid practical assessments.

Obviously, different women are affected by pregnancy in different ways. It is your responsibility to bring to your OC's attention any factors that may have an effect on the health of you and your unborn child in order that your conditions of training can be revised in a timely manner.

May I take this opportunity to congratulate you on your pregnancy and wish you and your child well."
 
#19
Thank you again, that gives me sufficient information to take into TA centre tomorrow so hopefully this time things will be done correctly or at least it's a good starting point.
 
#20
Steady on puttees that sounds like sensible advice, you may start a trend!
Puttees is the Daddy of Everything TA and was my saviour in the Land of the Penguins. I won't have a bad word said about him.
 
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