Posturing fool or man of principle?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Awol, Dec 8, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. It fits right in with christian principles to forgive the people who committed this crime against them, and I applaud the group for being able to do this.

    However, part of christian love is guiding wrongdoers into following the right path in the future - not much guidence if they let the insurgents off, on the other hand there wouldn't be much chance of them becoming decent citizens if the insurgents were executed
  2. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

    Possibly both.

    He thinks that he's a man of principle by showing the other cheek. The rest of humanity, well the majority of arrse, thinks that he's a posturing fool because his stance undermines the need for the rule of law, which in turn demands that the protagonists be punished for their actions.
  3. Kember's views also show a distinct lack of understanding with regard to the risks taken by those who rescued him. I think he was and is a naive fool.
  4. FOOL. Open invite to every mad group in Iraq or Afghanistan etc to kidnap Wedterners. They obviously werent beaten, tortured, raped or abused in any way shape or form. The American hostage was killed, will his family be as forgiving towards his captors? This is religious tolerance at the extreme, Will the kidnappers really give a flying f**k if this old man forgives them?Surely the kidnappers will face trial even if the idiot is so forgiving? Winds me up no end.
  5. Slaphead

    The foolishnes is not in the forgiveness, it is in their indecisiveness as to giving evidence. Remember the mother of Anthony Walker forgave his killers whilst still advocating that they went to trial.

    I only hope I would have the same strength of character as Mrs Walker if I were in similar circumstances
  6. Never was one for the god-bothering lark, but it is refreshing at least to see one of them putting his money where his spiritual mouth is. Gotta respect him for that, at least.

    I just wonder if he'd have felt the same if he'd fallen into the hands of the real scumbags, though
  7. Whilst I agree with the comments being made here, I have to admire Kember for what he is doing. He is making a serious, and valid point about the difference between his belief and the barbarity of those that kidnapped him. It is that difference that sets us apart.
    I would like to think that there are some Islamic people that would look at this example and learn from it. Somehow I doubt it though.
  8. Tempted to agree with slaphead69, but it might be too early to make a judgment. I reckon Kember is still traumatised – and who wouldn’t be?

    Look at what he said: “Norman Kember told BBC television the guards were as much victims of the cycle of violence in the Iraq as the hostages.
    "That doesn't excuse in any way what they did to us, but it gives us some understanding," Kember said.

    Sounds like a case of Stockholm syndrome to me - sometimes seen in abductees when they express loyalty to their kidnapper.

    I wonder if their Septic colleague, Tom Fox, who was murdered by these “guards” would be quite so inclined to forgive.

    Q: What is the difference between Stockholm syndrome and a Christian desire to forgive? Does it matter?
  9. What would Jesus have done?
  10. The Kember situation is different to the Walker one, she managed to make her forgiveness sound scathing and came across as a very proud and good person while ensuring her sons killers were dealt with properly. Kember however sounds like the kind of misguided idiot who would forgive you if you murdered his entire family. Theres only so much forgiving, turning other cheeks etc before enough is enough. Murderers, kidnappers etc will not be stopped or rethink their actions just because an old man forgives them, and if he is saying that his religion is not as barbaric as theirs then he is adding fuel to the fire.
  11. Jesus would have died for our sins.

    In a strange way, I'm not sure that His example is all that relevant here. All I see is a very traumatised, Christian anti war protester caught up in a massively complex moral maze, partly of his own making, which he needs to sort out for himself.

    Kember is not the Messiah

    (Expecting incoming Life of Brian shells)
  12. Hmmmmm

    Scathing forgiveness???

    As to my bold in Your statement - since Kember mentioned Luther King and GHANDI in his interview on News at 1, I hardly think that he is doing that
  13. Kember was one of the human shield brigade from this Canadian group of peaceniks, They were disappointed when the bombs came raining down on Baghdad and Kember not sure whther he would be a 'friendly-fire' statistic or a 'hostile-fire' dead fact became available for a bit of hostage-taking.

    I don't view these people as 'Christian' any more than David Koresh in Waco - they are both cultists.

    Christian Peacemaker Corps

    Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT) arose from a call in 1984 for Christians to devote the same discipline and self-sacrifice to nonviolent peacemaking that armies devote to war. Enlisting the whole church in an organized, nonviolent alternative to war, today CPT places violence-reduction teams in crisis situations and militarized areas around the world at the invitation of local peace and human rights workers. CPT embraces the vision of unarmed intervention waged by committed peacemakers ready to risk injury and death in bold attempts to transform lethal conflict through the nonviolent power of God’s truth and love.

    Initiated by Mennonites, Brethren and Quakers with broad ecumenical participation, CPT’s ministry of Biblically-based and spiritually-centered peacemaking emphasizes creative public witness, nonviolent direct action and protection of human rights.

    Iraq – a Baghdad-based presence since October 2002. Team members accompanied the Iraqi people through the U.S.-led 2003 war and continue during the post-war occupation to expose abusive acts by U.S. Armed Forces and support Iraqis committed to nonviolent resistance.

    Palestine – a continuing presence in the Hebron District (West Bank) since June 1995. Team members stand with Palestinians and Israeli peace groups engaged in nonviolent opposition to Israeli military occupation, collective punishment, settler harassment, home demolitions and land confiscation.

    As you can see from the language used it is a pretty neutral, non-partisan group of politically-motivated activists
  14. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    My sentiments exactly!! Has he been sent the bill yet?? :p