Post-JPA Clerical Support

What is thew Future of Clerical Support

  • Tri-Service

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Return to Regimental Clerks and RAPC

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Streaming within SPS Branch

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stay as we are

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#1
The RAF are doing it now, the Navy will be doing it soon, and the Army will do it once everyone else has had a go. Yes, I'm talking JPA. Now rather than giving JPA a slagging (as it seems to deserve) I want to know where it leaves us, your humble (though hard-working) unloved AGC(SPS) Clerks. A number of people have made some sugestions as to what should happen to us in the future, from going Tri-Service, returning to Regimental Clerks/RAPC, streaming (Staff/Docs/Pay) within the SPS Branch, or muddling along as we are.

Ladies, Gentlemen and other assorted Arrsers - your thoughts please:



(This is a serious question - so please leave the mindless slagging off in the NAAFI Bar - we've all heard it before.....)
 
#2
I dont know if its nostalgia, but things always seemed to work better with Regy clerks and RAPC blokes who knew what they were doing, rather than todays jack of all trades. I just cant see how JPA is going to improve anything
 
#3
I believe we should go back to the good old Regimental Clerks and RAPC. There was nothing wrong with either in the first place, then along came the AGC and its been down hill ever since. I want to be a Sapper Clerk again!!!!!!!
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#4
The Jack of all trades aspect was the biggest mistake IMHO. If the AGC(SPS) had to be done, why not have proper trade streaming - experts in their chosen field. Is it not better to be a specialist, and know all there is to know about your field, than to know a little bit about everything, and have to hope that a collegue (if you are not so undermanned that you still have collegues) knows the rest. It's a poor state of affairs. It's no wonder that the majority of the Army hate us!
 
#6
I hope that tri-service isn't the way ahead. Whilst tri-service units (PJHQ, Chicksands to name but 2) are ok, I didn't join the RAF as a clerk so that I could serve on HMS Whatever in the Atlantic ocean. There are lots of RAF admin posts going because of JPA, but people seem to forget that dealing with pay was only ever a small part of the trade. Who is going to do all the other stuff once we have been mafde redundant. I would prefer (in the RAF at least) to see an amalgamation of some trades into a 'support' trade who could do anything from Med Admin, MT Control, SCAF, Cat Acct and Pers Admin trades. Each person would be broadly multi-skilled, but specialise in one area. Handy if a Theatre kicks off and you need more, say, flight booking clerks. You can send more out and then backfil with the people who are broadly trained but haven't specialised in that area, sharing the burden. Sounds sensible to me, so I doubt it will ever happen.
 
#7
From what I've heard the AGC (SPS) is to lose around 650 posts in total - allegedly not until JPA has had time to bed in and the actual savings are properly identified. With all the current gaps the Corps is somewhere in the region of 650 ish undermanned - go figure!!
 
#8
Regarding the past and how the AGC (SPS) has changed things - it was sold along the lines that individuals would have the chance to try all disciplines out initially and then specialise at Cpl level - that way there would be senior JNCOs and all SNCOs that would be experts in their chosen field. All of a sudden this idea was dropped completely in favour of the "Universal Clerk" I bet budgets had nothing to do with it! Everyone who has had to suffer from this, either as part of the Corps or having been served by the Corps, knows it hasn't worked - there are very few individuals lucky enough to have the confidence in their knowlege of their current employment, whatever it may be, to do the job as it should be done. Its time this crazy idea was thrown out and individuals are given the chance to specialise and have pride in what they are doing, knowing they are providing the best service possible and that the "customers" deserve. We all know the best plan would be to return to Regtl Clerks and RAPC but this will, I feel, never happen - too many "senior" red faces
 
#10
Legs I'm not sure if its fair to say that the whole of the army hates you lot.....sure there are some of pay clerks could be mistaken as muslim fundamentalists (cos they're shi ite!) but I think if you dig behind the ignorant private type moan you'll find we appreciate what a crap deal you lot have.
Too few soldiers, too much work, no thanks etc etc......hold on......heard this all before somewhere!! When all are home with their feet up it's ALWAYS the supporting admin team that are still working innit??
 
#11
In the same way that I can see the Provost Branch becoming Tri-service, this will be the way forward for the clerks that are left post-JPA, as it allows an MoD beancounter to lose the posts "saved" and combine training facilities etc.

JPA is leading the way to all services being under similar terms and conditions of service. It's like a business merger. Ultimately the business is left with one standard employment administrative system.

They're not going to turn back time and go back to RAPC/RAOC Staff Clerks/All Arms Clerks/Regimental Clerks, even if that allowed the return of the specialisation that I feel was lost when the AGC(SPS) was formed.

With the advent of JPA, the MoD is expecting the administrative burden to be less. It should be, but the Civil Service is a bureaucracy, and bureaucracies don't get less complex, they get more complex. Personally I think you'll find that the already overworked Platoon Sergeant is about to become the even more overworked administrator for his platoon. Or you'll find that Pte Snooks becomes the Admin man for the Company, which is where the All Arms Clerk used to come from.
 
#12
My thoughts:

As Paywog said, reversing the changes would lead to red faces all round. Those at the top of the tree today were Majors 10/12 years ago and didn't fight the white of change.

We will go tri-service, it makes sense. I'm sure those with longer memories than I will hark back to the golden age of the regtl clerk. Think back further and the Romans did quite a lot for us too. That's evolution: not always for the best, but it happens.

Initially at least the 600-odd job savings will come through undermanning and natural wastage. The concern is where these empty posts are sat: Cpl level. This leaves the SNCOs with a lot to do to bridge the gap to the LCpls. But then, thats not new either.

Right, Sunday lunch beckons..
 
#13
JPA has led to the harmonization of procedures across the Services so the differences have been reduced. As time goes on, and in order to simplify the problems in maintaining the JPA application, the harmonization proccess will continue and ultimately there will be common procedures across most areas. On deployments it will therefore be possible for Army clerks to administer RN and RAF pers etc. Thus the logical conclusion is that there is no need for individual Services to maintain different clerikal streams and a single branch with common training can be established. It will take a while but it does seem to present a serious possibility.
 
#14
MilSpFunc,

The sad thing is that I can see things going exactly as you say - what a brilliant way to alienate the clerical staff even more. Surely the same argument could be used for the infantry/RAF Regiment - they all do the same thing so why not just scrap the regimental system altogether and have a tri service corps of infantry? The Paras and Marines could also join in! Wouldn't be much of an outcry then would there!
 
#16
robre said:
I believe we should go back to the good old Regimental Clerks and RAPC. There was nothing wrong with either in the first place, then along came the AGC and its been down hill ever since. I want to be a Sapper Clerk again!!!!!!!
Robre i am with you , the Clerks don't seem to be as good or as diligent as they used to be, i would rather have the old days were we had Pay clerks and Regimental Clerks, with the odd Sapper thown in to the Docs offfice to help with filing, they all seemed to know their job very well.

Sparky
 
#17
Legs said:
The RAF are doing it now, the Navy will be doing it soon, and the Army will do it once everyone else has had a go. Yes, I'm talking JPA. Now rather than giving JPA a slagging (as it seems to deserve) I want to know where it leaves us, your humble (though hard-working) unloved AGC(SPS) Clerks. A number of people have made some sugestions as to what should happen to us in the future, from going Tri-Service, returning to Regimental Clerks/RAPC, streaming (Staff/Docs/Pay) within the SPS Branch, or muddling along as we are.

Ladies, Gentlemen and other assorted Arrsers - your thoughts please:



(This is a serious question - so please leave the mindless slagging off in the NAAFI Bar - we've all heard it before.....)
I think the other question that should be considered, is if we'll ever see the Military Clerk be another MoD Civil Servant, with a small team of Combat Clerks, for deployable operations? Similar to the way the Military Police are attached to Brigade units?

The TA in the days of CVHQ at Worthy Down (does it still exist?) used to supply augmentees. Is there any reason why MoD wouldn't do something similar in the future with AGC(SPS)?

How many Civil Servants are there in your location? Do they outnumber the SPS?
 
#18
Paywog

We already have the new super regiments being formed. RM and Paras conduct similar training regimes and join togethor for common trg such as Anti Tank, Skill at Arms, JOTAC, Staff College, Mortars etc. etc. The unique areas of sea born or air born operations are maintained as separate and distinct skills but if it is decided, as seems highly likely, that airborne operations are no longer necessary or viable then Paras are just light infantry so no longer needed. When the paras are short Gurkhas have proved more than equal to the task of filling the vacant posts and even the SAS is now being supported by specialist teams that are special delivery but not SAS. In short there may be an outcry but comon sense and the ever present need to save money will prevail.
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#19
there are two types of pay clerks one is the lazy dont give a f**k attitude about the men in there unit. the other type are the ones who genuinely care ask the right questions and help the soldier out. unfortunately a computer terminal is the first type of clerk. I very rarely come across a clerk who doesnt care which says something for the AGC, but the ones who could not give a fig ruin soldiers morale. Id rather see some one in a office who may not be able to help with a direct problem but whom can help a soldier out by other means, than this JPA system being introduced. I have lost out on a large sum of money which I am resigned to never seeing again. What breaks my heart is seeing my soldiers that work for me stuggling through finances and never resolving the issues, leading them into debt and depression a good clerk would spot this in time and pull the soldier out of difficulty.

Once again thanks to the clerks that helped me and my lads out. You may wear silly berets but you hold a unit together. Remember the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence but never greener than an AGC beret!

Nuff said, Armadillo
 
#20
The idea of a purple clerical force is good, but although JPA should harmonise the regs, it won't tie in the working practices. As standard with the RN, we allow Leading Hands (Cpls) to hold money and administer unit finances (trains them for deployments, bill paying, etc). The RM don't let anyone below Sgt do it, and most Army units that I have worked with tend to hover around the SSGT level. I think that tri-deployable units is a brilliant idea, but I am not sure how many RN Writers (soon to be renamed Clerks) would be able to complete BFT/CFT.

How many of the Army can swim?
 

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