Post Conflict Training Standards


When the conflict has finished in Iraq and the POR is produced will it have any effect on the cushi cotten wool ATR's methods, or have the new lads performed to a standard that supports the methods in place at ATR's and Phase two locations.
Had this discussion today with a guy that was para reg in the 70's.

He commented to me that he was told in 72 that all of the new recruits were crap and the training had gone soft. He then repeated it very year until 90.

I was told this in 88, repeated it every year until 97 ;D

I (quite proudly) made the comment today that even if the basic training had gone a bit soft, it certainly wasn't being reflected by the guys in the field.

Perhaps we're all just getting old :(


you know when you are getting old when you start saying "in my days ........." "when i was a lad........" "you young 'uns don't know th meaning of work!........... "
"KIDS  !! ......."

;D ;D ;D


Here's a question.

Has anyone ever been on a course where they weren't told that it was getting easier, and that it was harder in the instructors day, and theat the army was going soft.


Much like teachers complaining that children's behaviour is getting worse every year. ...


Seing it first hand I think the "cushi cotten woll"methods are proving a load of bo@@@x.  They soon get a shock when they get out of the back of the herc and its just tents and sand..............then its more tents and sand............and is only then that they actually listen to you and respect your knowledge instead of the normal bull@@it you get from them back at camp.
They soon grow up.


So, time to set up an ATR in a tented camp in southern Iraq?
Commenting on things 'stabside':  The training syllabus has changed a fair bit over the last 7 years.  On my Recruit Selection Weekend I completed a BFT, 1 1/2 mile log run and on the next day, twice round the assualt course and a bergan run/tab of proberley 2 or 2 1/2 miles.

All they do now is the BPFA.
Our recruits are doing a bit more than that, I'll have to ask the RRTT bods what that is, but there's a lot of fitness in the syllabus


There's also a new TA Foundation Training, which involves a whole raft of new things for us to teach the little loves before they do their two weeks, including a 40 minute lecture from a padre and equal opportunities stuff... all of which has to be delivered by a suitable qualified individual.



When I did my basic training we had one T Spoon between five of us which served as a mess tin, with this we were expected to dig trenches, mount a guard, skin polar bears etc, etc. We were expected to run an 18 mile CFT with both grandparents and a house in our bergens (which weren't allowed so we got 58 pattern webbing, you know the sh*t stuff that swells up when wet) and do press ups with a whole squadron doing drill on our backs.

Sorry to take the p*ss but, yes things have changed, some for the better some for the worse. Discipline and physical ability aint what it used to be granted, however society has changed, and yes children today ( tomorrow's squaddies) are horrible, it something we have to put up with and shut up with, or else there isn't going to be anyone coming through the doors to have a chat with Recruiting Seargeants and even more going back out the gates of places like Pirbright, sorry thats the way it is.

I wouldn't have moaned if I were told you can't stay up and buff floors till f*ck Knows what time, because none of you have passed the handling of the buffing machine course (if we were allowed one) and you need your beauty sleep.  Yes NCOs aren't necessarily meant to be more cuddly and touchy feely, it hasn't degenerated to Hi call me Dave culture yet, it means that the same level of discipline needs to be derived and mantained using some gray matter, rather than threatening or actually taking someone round the corner and beating the Sh*t out of them (even though some deserve it), they'll only sue you. This leads me on to my last point we are living in a more litigious and sue you sir type culture, HM Gov likes nothing better than  covering its own ar_se, therefore I hate to say it, we may see Officers and NCOs being held personally liable for things that may have been perfectably acceptable in the past.

I hope all agree with me that the recent events, have shown that the British Armed Forces are the most capable and professional there is, who are capable of acheiving the aims set out in front of them often with limited resources..... the lads have done alright, there training can't be that bad.


The Mad Monk


Hear Hear. Whinge all you want but the boys done good. Credit where credit is due. Well done to every man (and woman) jack of them.


As you said they all did well............but (there are always buts) we all have valuable lessons to take away from any conflict and there has been quite few......mainly from media reports which sometimes show us in a bad light..........but cracking job...... be glad to watch normal telly now..........are the Osbornes still on ?
From what I remember of A level Roman history, a first century engineer general called Marius used to complain that standards were dropping at ATR and he could not get the troops he used to.