Post Brexit Free Trade Deal With USA.

Don’t forget our salads.
Well, precisely

though funnily enough, the EU fanboys who go on (and on, and on) about Chlorinated chicken tend to go somewhat quiet when you mention E-Coli infected German beansprouts, or Fipronil tainted eggs from Holland, or for that matter if you mention Horse meat either...
 
Round and round and round and round and round...
 
Neither has Ireland.

Are you looking forward to the EU negotiating whatever replaces the GFA?

What's it like knowing you're going to be thrown under the bus again and again until France and Germany get what they want?

How's that independence going, really?
Ireland got what it wanted and the EU27 agreed to it

And we have very experienced negotiators acting on the EU27’s behalf who negotiated as per what Ireland and the European Council agreed was the negotiating position.
 
Ireland got what it wanted and the EU27 agreed to it

And we have very experienced negotiators acting on the EU27’s behalf who negotiated as per what Ireland and the European Council agreed was the negotiating position.
Reading tweet the lines we had experienced negotiators repeatedly being overruled by No 10 in order to agree to whatever the European council wanted
 
Ireland got what it wanted and the EU27 agreed to it

And we have very experienced negotiators acting on the EU27’s behalf who negotiated as per what Ireland and the European Council agreed was the negotiating position.
Ah, man, seriously in denial there, mucker. The Veruca's really done a number on Irish independence, don't you think?

How do you like your new colonial masters?

Is this the Ireland Michael Collins would have wanted and the Ireland he gave his life for, do you think?

Should the Haughey family start running guns again?

Are the 26 going to do a Sam Beckett?

C'mon, get down with the craic, bonny lad.
 
The US rates mainly reflects norovirus, which is mainly spread person to person in the winter months. However it is generally classified as a food borne illness regardless of how it was spread and accounts for the majority (60 - 65% depending on the source) of the the food borne illness rate.

In the UK norovirus is reported as a relatively minor cause of food borne illness.

I can't find any details if the UK follows the same reporting standards as the US when it comes to norovirus, so I don't know if the UK separates out food borne versus non food borne origin when compiling their statistics on this. The UK uses a complex mathematical model to try to estimate food borne illness rates based on data from a variety of sources. Getting comparable statistics is one of the major challenges when comparing public health data between different countries and is not a subject which is amenable to just grabbing numbers from different countries and comparing them.

If we however look at the actual reported deaths in the source you have quoted, 3000 in the US versus 500 in the UK and then account both the different in population (a factor of 5), as well as the precision of the data (one significant digit) then the rates are virtually the same.

If you are concerned about poultry, eggs, and other similar foods, then the main cause there is campylobacter, which is the main cause of food borne illness in the UK. The UK reports 280 thousand cases per year, and the US reports 1.3 million.
Campylobacter remains the most common foodborne pathogen in the UK with an estimated 280,000 cases and 39,000 GP consultations.
Campylobacter causes an estimated 1.3 million illnesses each year in the United States.
Here's the US description of it.
Most illnesses likely occur due to eating raw or undercooked poultry, or to eating something that touched it. Some are due to contaminated water, contact with animals, or drinking raw (unpasteurized) milk.
If we compare the per capita UK rate of campylobacter with that of the US we see that the rate of this food borne illness in the UK is actually higher than in the US. Keep in mind that unlike norovirus this is an illness that has direct relevance to food production standards. However, the rate in the UK is not enough higher than in the US that I would be confident of concluding that UK food safety is deficient in this respect, taking into account the above mentioned difficulties in finding comparable health data in different countries.

The main point to note on this however is that the main cause of food borne illness in the US has little to do with actual food production standards and I have not seen any actual evidence that US food production standards are deficient overall compared to those of the UK. You might make an argument with respect to restaurant food standards, but that is outside the scope of trade matters.
 
I note that nearly all the 'issues' concentrate on Mexico rather than Canada.

Also as far as agriculture etc. goes, my understanding was that the agricultural part of NAFTA was not tripartite, so there would be separate/bespoke deal regards agriculture, which gets around the chlorinated chicken hysteria(or is that listeria?)
NAFTA is not like the EU and does not cover trade in a number of agricultural commodities which various parties wanted left out. For example Canada exlcuded dairy, poultry, eggs, and margarine from the US, while the US excluded dairy products, peanuts, peanut butter, cotton, sugar, and sugar-containing products from Canada. Mexico has their own exclusions, but I don't know what they may be. NAFTA is actually three bilateral treaties with various minor differences in them.
 
The US is also the UK’s largest export market for services (Finance, Law, Insurance etc)

Aus & NZ offered May use of their negotators, as did Next - May declined.

The way Trump works I see him offering "Free Trade on everything, see how it goes and tweak if somethings not working". He offered EU a FTA at his first G8, EU said no.

Forget the chlorinated chicken hysteria, nobody has to buy it. However, we seem fine about eating chlorinated salad veg and drinking chlorinated water.

@labrat

+1 World Top 100 Unis: USA 29, UK 18, Rest of EU 12 (highest 50th)

Defence too eg This Gun
I would insist that as part of the treaty , Trump comes over for meetings at least four times a year .
This will give the Left apoplexy , the Police much needed overtime and the inflatables business a boost .
 
The US rates mainly reflects norovirus, which is mainly spread person to person in the winter months. However it is generally classified as a food borne illness regardless of how it was spread and accounts for the majority (60 - 65% depending on the source) of the the food borne illness rate.

In the UK norovirus is reported as a relatively minor cause of food borne illness.

I can't find any details if the UK follows the same reporting standards as the US when it comes to norovirus, so I don't know if the UK separates out food borne versus non food borne origin when compiling their statistics on this. The UK uses a complex mathematical model to try to estimate food borne illness rates based on data from a variety of sources. Getting comparable statistics is one of the major challenges when comparing public health data between different countries and is not a subject which is amenable to just grabbing numbers from different countries and comparing them.

If we however look at the actual reported deaths in the source you have quoted, 3000 in the US versus 500 in the UK and then account both the different in population (a factor of 5), as well as the precision of the data (one significant digit) then the rates are virtually the same.

If you are concerned about poultry, eggs, and other similar foods, then the main cause there is campylobacter, which is the main cause of food borne illness in the UK. The UK reports 280 thousand cases per year, and the US reports 1.3 million.


Here's the US description of it.


If we compare the per capita UK rate of campylobacter with that of the US we see that the rate of this food borne illness in the UK is actually higher than in the US. Keep in mind that unlike norovirus this is an illness that has direct relevance to food production standards. However, the rate in the UK is not enough higher than in the US that I would be confident of concluding that UK food safety is deficient in this respect, taking into account the above mentioned difficulties in finding comparable health data in different countries.

The main point to note on this however is that the main cause of food borne illness in the US has little to do with actual food production standards and I have not seen any actual evidence that US food production standards are deficient overall compared to those of the UK. You might make an argument with respect to restaurant food standards, but that is outside the scope of trade matters.
Do you have a link for the norovirus aspect?

Having had campylobacter, in Australia, I'm very much aware of its effects, that the UK is trying to combat it through good farming methods, supply chain controls and most importantly, that cooking properly kills it, same with salmonella but I tend to like my eggs soft boiled.

The Sustain link above is much more recent than the 2014 report you cite and is quite balanced. The Grauniad link one reason why we need stringent checks on imported meats.

Brazil sent one million salmonella-infected chickens to UK in two years
 
Do you have a link for the norovirus aspect?

Norovirus accounts for 58% of foodborne illness in the United States. I've seen other sources saying 65%.
Norovirus is the leading cause of foodborne illness in the United States. It causes 58% of foodborne illnesses acquired in the United States.
Most outbreaks happen in the winter months.
Most norovirus outbreaks in the United States happen from November to April.
However in the UK it's only the third most common cause of foodborne illness.
Norovirus is estimated to be the third most common cause of foodborne illness in the UK. Our research estimated that it was responsible for 74,000 cases of food poisoning in the UK in 2009.
Most foodborne cases of norovirus in the US happen in restaurants or catering and are the result of contamination during food preparation. Note that while we are referring here only to cases of norovirus which is associated with food, these cases are mainly due to food handling in places like restaurants rather than the result of contamination at the source. This is an important distinction to keep in mind with respect to trade as we are talking about the food sources rather than how well regulated restaurants are. That is, the majority of the "foodborne illness" cases of by far the most common "foodborne illness" in the US are due to factors which have no relevance to countries which import food from the US.
In 2011, outbreak surveillance data indicated that 58% of foodborne illness in the United States was caused by norovirus (Scallan et al. 2011). Most foodborne outbreaks of norovirus occur in restaurant or catering settings and are the result of contamination that takes place during food preparation.
Most references to contamination at source talk about shellfish, however keep in mind that most contamination does not take place at the source. Interestingly, three quarters of UK oysters tested positive for norovirus. Shellfish are filter feeders and food contamination is a result of poor wastewater treatment, dumping of raw sewage, and the like.
Additionally, filter-feeding shellfish such as oysters and clams present an elevated hazard because they ingest norovirus if it is present in surrounding water and concen-trate it to much higher levels. Although norovirus cannot reproduce in marine water, it can survive in the environ-ment once introduced. Sources of norovirus contamination to marine water can include faulty wastewater treatment facilities, storm water runoff, dumping of raw sewage, and overboard discharge of vomit near shellfish harvest beds (DOHWa 2013). Acute gastroenteritis outbreaks associated with contaminated shellfish have been reported all over the world. In 2013, norovirus was detected in 9% of oysters collected on the French market over a period of 16 months (Schaeffer et al. 2013). In the UK, 76.2% of oyster samples tested across 50 harvesting areas were positive for norovirus.
However, "berries, and salad" are also mentioned.
NoV infection has, however, additionally been associated with the consumption of food, either through the consumption of food contaminated at source such as seafood, berries, and salad, or as a consequence of the foodstuff being contaminated in some way by a food handler during processing or serving.
As you can see above, the majority of US foodborne illness is norovirus, but most of that happens in places such as restaurants. Whether it is due to contamination at the source (the aspect which is relevant to food trade) or from food handing in restaurants (which is not relevant to trade), both are lumped into the "foodborne illness" category rather than being split out separately.

It however is only the third most common foodborne illness in the UK. I have not seen anything which tells me if the UK statistics are directly comparable to those in the US in terms of how they are categorised.

It is also worth nothing that positively diagnosing norovirus requires lab tests, so the more you look for it the more of it you will likely find. Doctors in the US are notorious for ordering extra lab tests of all sorts, I don't know if the same is true in the UK.


The obvious conclusion would seem to be that comparative statistics which talk about the rates of foodborne illness in the US versus the UK as a single overall number but do not detail whether both sets of numbers are comparable and which do not distinguish between restaurant contamination (not relevant to trade) and source contamination (relevant to trade) are misleading.

Having had campylobacter, in Australia, I'm very much aware of its effects, that the UK is trying to combat it through good farming methods, supply chain controls and most importantly, that cooking properly kills it, same with salmonella but I tend to like my eggs soft boiled. (...)
As noted in my previous post the campylobacter contamination rate in the UK is actually higher than in the US. However, in my opinion the difference is not enough to conclude that UK food is therefore less safe than US food as the data may not be precise enough to support such a definitive conclusion.
 
Well, precisely

though funnily enough, the EU fanboys who go on (and on, and on) about Chlorinated chicken tend to go somewhat quiet when you mention E-Coli infected German beansprouts, or Fipronil tainted eggs from Holland, or for that matter if you mention Horse meat either...
Nor do they mention Chicken and Shellfish from Thailand and Vegetables from Senegal are perfectly OK. Yet somehow USA food is poisonous.

It's almost like post fall of USSR, EU wants to replace them as USA's enemy - USA laughs which enrages EU even more.
 
Check infection and death rates.

View attachment 407746

Fears new trade deals with US will increase UK food poisoning @UKsustain | Sustain
Get a grip

USA: 30 egg salmonella deaths a year, from a population of ~350,000,000 - oh dear, how sad, never mind.

UK and EU are overly obsessed with "If it saves one life" cost irrelevant. It's one reason USA powering ahead while EU stagnates

.
What's the racial breakdown for those figures?

How many were "homeless"?

How many were illegal immigrants?

If USA really had a food poisoning epidemic it would be wall to wall BBC & CNN News.
 
Get a grip

USA: 30 egg salmonella deaths a year, from a population of ~350,000,000 - oh dear, how sad, never mind.

UK and EU are overly obsessed with "If it saves one life" cost irrelevant. It's one reason USA powering ahead while EU stagnates

.
What's the racial breakdown for those figures?

How many were "homeless"?

How many were illegal immigrants?

If USA really had a food poisoning epidemic it would be wall to wall BBC & CNN News.
Take your own advice, get back to me when your screen isn't covered in spittle.

You'd not think that this was the country which went through BSE would you?
 

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