Poss MD, help required please!

#1
Hello all, just after a bit of (free) advice if possible.

I have a luxation of the sternoclavicular joint (see the mighty google for more info Clicky that was caused in service (gunner in a WR that had a little "bump" back in 2002.)

I had an operation in oct of 02 to repair the joint but managed to knacker it again on TELIC 1 (fainted from the shits and landed on my arm, a little embarrassing!) You do the maths to see how long I had from large shoulder op to war fighting!

Fast forward to now and years of shitty pain, useless physio (nothing against physio but you cant do much for a dislocation!) and endless trips to the docs and finally the German specialist is going to write a letter to the MO stating that I can never again do the following: Tab with ANY weight, Pressups or fire a rifle. This might make my chosen proffesion (Inf) a little difficult!

My concern is how the MO / Army will take this, I would hate to be P7 downgraded and spend the rest of my time in the ration store or the like but I'm a little worried about being MD'd (Mortgage, credit card, dog, wife to worry about..in that order!)

What would I be looking at if I was MD'd? I'm 8 years in and have no trade as such on the outside.

Any help at this stage would be much appreciated; I'm going to get in touch with the RBL as soon as I know what's going on!

All the best.

Tiddle.
 

Bowmore_Assassin

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#2
Tiddle, I think it is bad news for you. You are up for a MD let alone downgrading I would suggest. Any docs on here who can advise ?

However, you could be in line for compensation if as you state your accident or injury was caused whilst on-duty so RBL advice is a good bet. Also, dig out the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme booklet released by the Veterans Agency - It is called "Your compensation Scheme Explained." To quote, " What does The Scheme Cover - Injury, illness and death caused mainly by service...and injuries or illnesses made worse by service..."

Make max use of your resettlement and start planning for that now.

Good luck...
 
#3
Hi Tiddle,
You may need to see an Occupational Therapist, they will be able to advise you on what sort of work you can and can't do. Just cause you're injured it doesn't mean that you can't be employed somewhere and as you are only 8 years in, you have plenty of time to retrain and possibly rebadge. Take time to take stock of the situation and find out what is best for you, I wouldn't rush into anything until you have weighed up all the options. Good Luck
 

Bowmore_Assassin

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#4
I stand corrected if an Occupational Therapist can salvage a career for you. Again, I wish you luck.
 
#6
Hello again all, I have seen an Army doctor at the MRS today and am now P3 downgraded. I have a copy of a form AC 13371 that lists my specific restrictions as:

“Unfit upperbody XXX* eg press-up, carrying a heavy pack or load ie as in CFT. Unfit firing a rifle”

* Illegible, doctors writing!

He was asking some leading questions as to weather I have thought of leaving the Army and has made me an appointment with an occupational Health Person.

About half an hour after I left the MRS I suddenly got a phone call from our unit medic asking where my med docs are as it would appear that they are now missing.

What a stunning coincidence, within 30 minutes of looking like I’m getting MD’d my docs go diffy.

So where dose that leave me with regards to future pension etc? Both times I have been injured it has been in service but without med docs how can I prove it?
 
#7
Firstly a UMO or One Member Medical Board (OMMB) can only give you a temporary grading. Secondly, if you are to be considered for a medical discharge you must attended a medical board. A UMO cannot medically discharge someone, he or she must submit a report to a medical board for their consideration and if it is for a recommendation for a P8 medical discharge it must be carried out by a Full Medical Board (FMB). If you are now not up to the medical standards required for your roll you must be assessed by a board and the Occupational Health (OH) Consultant will decide whether that is the case or not. If the board grades you other than P8 you will be offered alternate employment suitable to your grading, this could even be in another Corps or in another trade. If you do not accept the alternate employment they have no other option but to discharge you. Even then the recommendation of the board must be ratified by the SO1 OH APC Glasgow. Hope this helps.
_________________
 
#8
Thanks Panzer, Any idea how often this Full Medical Board convenes and weather it’s in BFG or the UK?

Had a MASSIVE argument with the missus last night, it would appear to be my fault I have no clue to what will happen with me.
 
#9
If and when graded P8, it is not an automatic discharge. The Med Board grade of P8 is a recomemndation to the Chain of Command. If your Unit/Corps can and want to employ you within Unit/Corps or transfer then you can be retained as P8.

A grading of P8 is not fait au compli of being kicked out and thrust into the magnificent NHS.
 
#10
Tiddle
The boards are held both in the UK and Germany, normally on a monthly basis. A standard medical board must refer you to a full medical board for consideration for a P8 grading (discharge). Original Punk is right, in a way, all board results are recommendations and must be agreed to. However the current trend of some CO's not accepting the recommendation is a dangerous presidence to set. They are basically over-ruling a board of specialst Consultants and Doctors who are complying with the regulations which clearly state that a soldier with a P8 grading is "unfit for all military duties" and therefore must be discharged. CO's differ and constantly change. One may choose to retain, against advise, another may not. Who then chooses who to keep. Is it fair to keep one soldier and discharge another who may be in better nick. Is it down to personalities or individual CO's. In the current operational climate we could end up with hundreds of down graded (P8) soldiers who simply cannot deploy, who then bears the burden of being deployed in their place? How do you employ a soldier who is unfit all duties, we can only retain so many storemen or mess waiters. Would you want to remain in your unit and watch all your mates climb the ladder of promotion and leave you behind. A P8 soldier cannot be promoted. We should NOT retain P8 soldiers. It is wrong to do so and will lead to major maning problems if left unchecked irrespective of personal feelings. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.
 
#11
Sorry to drag up this old thread but I thought I'd better update the kind people who advised me.

I was P7'd not long after the last post and I've been kicking about doing rear parties and duties for fun since. :roll: It's especialy starting to grind me down as my BN are on OP's soon.

I had two appointments with the Occupational Health Department who said they would recommend me to be discharged but haven't heard anything until I had a phone call from my unit medic today and now have the date for my full medical board.

I'll post the results in this thread if it helps anyone who's just starting down the MD path. Just one word of advise for anyone at the start though... It takes fucking ages!
 
#12
Tiddle,

Have your med docs been found? If they have, request a complete copy immediately. Check them over to ensure nothing seems to have gone missing. Those documents are about you and you have the right to a copy.

Good luck with the Med board.

Shiny
 
#13
Tiddles,

one thing people havent advised you and certainly the OH people should have done when you saw them.

Gte your ass in to see the IERO(?) resettlement Officer at your local education centre, they will give you a full brief as to what is available and if you are potentially being medically discharged yu are entitled to a full resettlement package ie £500+ for cses etc.... If you end up being retraded by the Army etc and get to serve your glorious 22 years then you will still be entitled to teh full resettlement package at teh end of it.

the resettlement Officer and in fact resettlement centre will have seen loads of people who were being medically discharged so know all the ins and outs and can give you advice.

a BIG WARNING. Once a full medical board has deemed you unfit for service you have aprox 3 months before your a civvy... Its that fast.... Although in that case you can carry on your resettlement for up to 12 months after discharge its adviseable to start it NOW.

some of my exact details may be a bit off, but the gist of it is correct.

PM me if you need any details, but whatever happens get yourself an initial resettlement interview NOW
 
#14
Azrael2006 said:
Tiddles,

one thing people havent advised you and certainly the OH people should have done when you saw them.

Gte your ass in to see the IERO(?) resettlement Officer at your local education centre, they will give you a full brief as to what is available and if you are potentially being medically discharged yu are entitled to a full resettlement package ie £500+ for cses etc.... If you end up being retraded by the Army etc and get to serve your glorious 22 years then you will still be entitled to teh full resettlement package at teh end of it.

the resettlement Officer and in fact resettlement centre will have seen loads of people who were being medically discharged so know all the ins and outs and can give you advice.

a BIG WARNING. Once a full medical board has deemed you unfit for service you have aprox 3 months before your a civvy... Its that fast.... Although in that case you can carry on your resettlement for up to 12 months after discharge its adviseable to start it NOW.

some of my exact details may be a bit off, but the gist of it is correct.

PM me if you need any details, but whatever happens get yourself an initial resettlement interview NOW
Tiddle,

The education centre on your base will have one of its bods (usually a civvy who's ex-military) to help get you started with resettlement. Az's right: you need to get down there fast.

Some points to bear in mind:

1. Anything to do with resettlement starts with the education centre, especially in your case as someone who may be medically discharged. Tell the education centre if the bn objects to you speaking to them: their job is to help you.

2. Check with the MO whether you can continue working or should be declared non-effective. If the MO says you're non-effective, the bn has to stand you down and you can get some resettlement done before the medical board makes its decision. In practice, that will be doing courses at the education centre but (a) these can't come off your resettlement entitlement and (b) your education grant will pay for most of them.

3. There is no entitlement to carry over resettlement after discharge but, if there are medical reasons why you could not complete resettlement before discharge, you may be allowed to claim resettlement time and allowances up to two years afterwards. Equally, if you are not going to be in a fit state to do resettlement within that time, your resettlement can be transferred to your missus. The requests for doing resettlement after you've left or transferring it to the missus go through the education centre, not through the bn.

4. Take the missus with you when you go to the education centre. She's doing resettlement too and can use their facilities just like you can (she doesn't get any dosh, though).
 
#15
Thanks again all:

shiny_arrse said:
Tiddle,

Have your med docs been found? If they have, request a complete copy immediately. Check them over to ensure nothing seems to have gone missing. Those documents are about you and you have the right to a copy.
Yep, my med docs had been forwarded to Glasgow as apparently I was posted in 2004. First I had heard of it! My docs are now together and have a full copy.

Azrael2006 said:
Tiddles,
Gte your ass in to see the IERO(?) resettlement Officer at your local education centre, they will give you a full brief as to what is available and if you are potentially being medically discharged yu are entitled to a full resettlement package ie £500+ for cses etc.... If you end up being retraded by the Army etc and get to serve your glorious 22 years then you will still be entitled to teh full resettlement package at teh end of it.

the resettlement Officer and in fact resettlement centre will have seen loads of people who were being medically discharged so know all the ins and outs and can give you advice.

a BIG WARNING. Once a full medical board has deemed you unfit for service you have aprox 3 months before your a civvy... Its that fast.... Although in that case you can carry on your resettlement for up to 12 months after discharge its adviseable to start it NOW.

some of my exact details may be a bit off, but the gist of it is correct.

PM me if you need any details, but whatever happens get yourself an initial resettlement interview NOW
Sorry, I should have said I have seen the IREO and done my CTW. Unfortunately I can't start my resettlement proper until my FMB. :roll:

I have my resettlement plan ready I just need the decision from the board so I can kick things off.

troll_king said:
Check with the MO whether you can continue working or should be declared non-effective. If the MO says you're non-effective, the bn has to stand you down and you can get some resettlement done before the medical board makes its decision. In practice, that will be doing courses at the education centre but (a) these can't come off your resettlement entitlement and (b) your education grant will pay for most of them.
A-ha-ha-ha. Sorry.

I have 48 days leave left to take before April but my CSM gave me a HUGE fuck off pill the other day when I asked for some time off to sort out my resettlement. His words were "you don't know 100% you're getting discharged so you cant have any leave." Nice one. :roll:

My board is pencilled in for the 19th of this month anyway so I might as well carry on with the important task of providing a fire picket during my last few days in HMF.

Sorry if I sound a little bitter. I AM!

Thanks again all, Tiddle.
 
#16
There's more to resettlement than doing a course and a lot of it you can do whilst you're stagging on fire picket.

If you haven't already done so, you should go to the housing and finance briefings (the education centre will have the dates): these are duty events and you don't have to be on resettlement to go to them (ask the IERO to speak to the OC if the CSM gives you grief).

Use the education centre's computer suite to look at the job pages of your local newspaper and start applying for some of those jobs. Talk to your CTP consultant about how to write the letters: the resettlement centres are on the military net so that you can do this.

Talk to the welfare office about moving yourself and your family to where you're going to be living after discharge. Ask the MO about whether you are still effective: if he says you're not, you cannot work in the bn lines. The only duties you can then perform are those arranged for you by the education centre. Like I said though, this is a medical decision: it's not automatic.
 
#17
Just a quick post to let you know that my board is now set for Friday at 09:00. I'll post the outcome in this thread.






And I'm fucking nervous!
 
#18
Sluice_dweller said:
It won't be an Occupational Therapist it will probably be an Occupational Health Person (either a doctor or a nurse) who would advise accordingly re future employment.

Sluice
it would be an OT - looking at that kind of thing is just what OTs do - i think a lot of people forget this if they work in general hospital settings when it's all elderyl care stuff

OccHealth will have input but any decent OHN or Dr is going to send someone like the OP off to a an OT and an ergonomicist PDQ to at least get a professional report done...
 
#19
troll_king said:
3. There is no entitlement to carry over resettlement after discharge but, if there are medical reasons why you could not complete resettlement before discharge, you may be allowed to claim resettlement time and allowances up to two years afterwards. Equally, if you are not going to be in a fit state to do resettlement within that time, your resettlement can be transferred to your missus. The requests for doing resettlement after you've left or transferring it to the missus go through the education centre, not through the bn.
Minor point and sorry to be picky, you cannot carry resettlement time over into civvie life, (the army are in no position to tell a civilian employer that they have to let an employee have up to 7 paid weeks off to do military resettlement that they couldnt get in while they were serving) you can in certain circumstancies be given up to 2 years after discharge (which you correctly said) in which to use your allowances though (which I think that you meant, but I thought I'd clarify), but POST DISCHARGE RESETTLEMENT IS TO BE BY EXCEPTION (JSP 534 bold)
Requests for post discharge and transferred resettlement go through Director Resettlement via your IERO at the Education Centre.

As for the transfering your resettlement to your wife/husband, you are spot on that this can be done, but there are a few caveats:

In exceptional cases, where, for long term medical reasons, a Service Leaver (SL) is unable to take advantage of the resettlement service to which they are entitled, or as a result of death, this provision, including IRTC (£534), SLC (standard learning credits) as appropriate and associated travel and subsistence allowances will be made available to the spouse or civil partner up to 2 years post release.
Spouses or civil partners should take out appropriate personal injury/liability insurance.
Authorisation of post discharge and transferred Resettlement is on a case by case basis and is not an automatic entitlement
 
#20
Hi Tiddle,

Further to all those saying that an 'OT' is a load of bollocks, then I beg to differ. I have been seeing both OH and OT, and OT is the one that deals with daily issues and helps you to either get by, or progress, which to me is more important than everything else. If you don't need OT, then you are probably a malingerer.

After all that, I would just like to ask how you're doing Tiddle? I am in the last stages of an MD and have gone through the entire military medical process.

Obviously the true severity of your condition is your business, and the Med Boards. But as no one else can measure your level of pain, the whole decision making process is pretty much in your hands.

Is this your first or second review, or is it your actual Med Board?

If it is the latter, your actual Med Board, then make sure that you have completed an F Med 24. In depth on para 10, and with attachments to para 12a. This box is tiny so write all your documented evidence on seperate sheets, as their is no way that you can fit it all on the original sheet.

If it is a review, then the Doctor will listen to your wishes and try and offer guidance with respects to medical care. The Doctor is not their to offer carrer advice, so you should make sure that you have spoke with your RCMO in depth and exhausted all other possible avenues; and also spoke to your RAO/RAOWO in respects of pensions etc.

A Job is a Job, and in the current world economy situation, prospects aren't that good, although not impossible, so if their is a job in green that you could do that is within your medical limits, then it is worth considering. I don't know how long you have served, but don't expect a SWP or AFCS to make you a rich man. I have only a couple of weeks left to serve, and although I know what my basic non-attributable pension for my length of service is, I still don't know if it will be augmented by either SWP or AFCS.

And don't forget, it's what's best for you and not what's best for everyone else that's important.

Good luck Buddy
 

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