Poppy Selling and public option

Discussion in 'Charities and Welfare' started by Birddog, Oct 12, 2004.

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  1. Hi All,

    I do not want to start any arguments nor cause any conflict. I am an ACF Lt. (pause while I hear a thousand oh yeahs) and I take Poppy selling very seriously.

    Each year our Troop helps sell poppies for the RBL and in 5 hours we raised £2195 last year using 75 Cadets. It saddens me where the wearing of Uniform because unpopular and the "funny stares" and comments we get reflects just how un military society has become.

    I have noticed each year the poor veterans ranks thin and it becomes harder to get the money out of the public. We often get jibes like"why should I buy a poppy" Well how about "because you are free or to remember those who did not come back."

    The Armed Forces having been in conflict this year I am hoping that the "grateful" public should contribute abit more.

    The question really is, do you thing the Government does enough to help the Poppy Appeal and do you think that things like the 2 minute silence should never be allowed to disappear.

    A Country that turns its back on the sacrifices of its past is in danger of forgetting the debt it owes.

    Personally I think you can not do enough, in 20 years or so there will ne NO WW1 veterans left and alot of the WW2 Veterans will be in their 100s what will happen then.

    Your views would be appreciated and if this item causes any offence I apologise in advance.

    Birddog
     
  2. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    The poppy appeal is one of the best charitable and memorial efforts this country has. It directly helps people who have given something to the country as a whole and is a testament to what happened to allow our current way of life.

    The 2 minute silence should be preserved forever.

    The government should, in my opinion, support the appeal in word, but not in deed (like so many other government activities). I think that if the government was going to give money to the appeal, they could do better by improving forces pensions or veteran benifits (obviously this is another area for discussion but you get the idea). I think that it is to the credit of the people behind the poppy appeal that they do the work unaided except for the help of volenteers and the result can be thought of as theirs.

    The debt that is owed to them is not forgotten.
     
  3. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    I don't think you'll find offence taken by any ARRSE members Birddog, quite the reverse I'd imagine.
    Congratulations and heartfelt thanks to your lads for raising so much last year.
    I can still remember when everything stopped for two minutes on the eleventh, even if it was a working day. Is two minutes a year too much to ask ?
    Will we see the same homage paid to the fallen next month as was shown to Ken Bigley in Liverpool over the weekend ?

    As to the government doing enough - they've done far too much already I believe.

    In 1999, with the flimsy excuse of cutbacks, they cancelled the world's biggest and oldest military tattoo, which raised thousands for service charities, and did the same to the Gun Race, as "enough respect had been paid to the dead." :evil:
    http://www.jonford.plus.com/field%20gun-%20a%20century%20of%20history.html

    In the same year, The Glorious Leader opened the 'Eternal Museum of the Holocaust.' With all respect to those who died in the camps, why does he see fit to honour their memories for eternity, but not the millions of men and women who made the supreme sacrifice while fighting for freedom ?

    He has already set a precedence of one hundred years for remembrance, so we've another fourteen or fifteen years left in which to sell Poppies.
    Possibly.
     
  4. Gents I think you are both so right.

    You could argue the Government has not done enough or too much. It has to be instigated by the Government and hopefully the people will follow.

    Part of the problems is none of the Headshed have served I bet if Blair had seen incoming things would be different.

    It scares me that he can send so many brave men to their deaths but not lead the Country in remembrance.

    Since her reign started the Queen has only missed two parades thats showing her gratitude to the fallen.

    The 2 minute silence should be enforced and everything should stop. As you say 2 minutes to thank for freedom is nothing.

    I hope that the Poppy appeal continues and in this it allows us in a small way to say thank you.

    It should not be a question of should we remember it is our DUTY!!!

    I have never served but I always tell my Cadets that Soldiers not much older than them wearing the same uniform and cap badge were fighting for their lives and we should remember and thank our lucky stars we were spared having to go. To the Cadets who are in the system remebrance is a sense of duty which they feel honoured to take part in and when veterans come and speak to them about the War you can see the look of both horror and respect on their faces.

    I will never forget lets hope the rest don't either.

    Birddog.
     
  5. First of all BD - well done to you and your cadets.

    However, to answer your questions. In simple terms, if the government did enough, there wouldn't be a need for the Poppy Appeal. Old soldiers wouldn't be homeless. Old soldiers would be appropriately cared for by society. To be fair, after WW1 the drain on the country would have been too much, hence the Haig Appeal. Today, society is probably too selfish to care for them so the Poppy Appeal is still necessary. What the situation will be in 25 years time is open to speculation.

    You have to separate the Poppy Appeal and the Two Minutes Silence. One is a charitable call to help ex-servicemen. The other is a chance for ordinary people to acknowledge their debt to fellow britons who died in the service of this country.

    I can see a time when the Poppy Appeal will be much less of a national event. The Two Minutes Silence, on the other hand, should never be allowed to fade. Problem we have is that now there are TWO two minutes silences. One on the 11/11th and the other on the nearest Sunday. We should make our minds up and have just one. I favour 11/11th and make it a public holiday. Having two is an open invitation for the lefties to carp. Divide and rule. Also, move the ceremony around the country. Why should it always be in London? London is no longer representative of the country, if it ever was. It's just convenient for the ruling classes, poli's and such who got the poor b*st*rds killed in the first place. Well I've got news for them. It aint their ceremony - it's the people's.

    One further point. You say it reflects how un-military we've become.
    Despite the fact that we've probably fought every country in the world at least twice, I don't think we are naturally militaristic. Probably why we're so good at it. Long live Tommy Atkins.
     
  6. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    I'd go along with the eleventh of November too, but I wouldn't make it a public holiday. I'd much prefer to see everything stop for the two minutes on a normal working day.

    I recall there was a shop in Colly a while back that put up a sign saying something like,
    "The two minutes silence on Remembrance day is a personal matter. This shop will continue serving customers through the silence."
    Venal barstards !

    Every squaddie and his dog was pissed off, but instead of causing a ruckus the word was spread through families and friends and the place boycotted.
    It didn't have the sign up the next year............as it had gone bust. :D

    Probably not the root cause of the shop's demise but everyone was glad to have been a part of it.
     
  7. X-Inf

    X-Inf War Hero Book Reviewer

    This is a perennial question and as time goes by Rememberance will fade - that is human nature and nowt we can do to change that. However, for those alive now in this country and, I would suggest, for at least the next 50 years do owe a debt to those who did not get the opportunity to live their lives to the full.

    Where the Government could help is to spread this message, we do owe them and they did not exactly want to be place in the position of being owed!

    2 minutes out of our lives is no comparison with the time that was taken out of theirs!

    We, serving and ex, have a duty as well to spread the message - not just to the converted here but out in the streets, pubs offices, shops, anywhere. I have my poppy already and will no doubt buy several more before Nov 14th.
     
  8. Having read the thread I totally agree with the comments made. Unfortunatley as stated by X-Inf rememberance will fade. Indeed I have seen it where I work, where some muppet couldn't work out the significance of Nov 11 - I inturn put him right sharpish with some rather short abrupt words.

    Just as a side line I noticed last Christmas that the usual Forces greetings TV show (normally hosted by Jim Davidson) had somehow dissappeared from the schedule. Not impressed as I feel it is another reminder that a great many proffesionals are serving this country currently. The nation has a short memory which needs, although it shouldn't, a nudge from those who care and see it as their duty to remember the fallen. Maybe cured if more schools actually went over to see the cemetries and see the head stones - makes you think as I'm sure you all have experienced.

    but glad to see the cadets carrying it forward with their efforts - Well Done
     
  9. 2 minutes out of a year is hardly a lot to ask.
    If we dont learn from history we are condemmed to repeat it.
    you can't learn from history if you don't remember.
    good work on part of your cadet unit
     
  10. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    That is very true and a good point, however, the wars of the 20th century are the focal point of the campaign not the only point.

    I do not belive that we will stop making war on those who displease us, and this will continue to supply a line of verterans and those to be remembered. Very few people consider that rememberence also applies to all those people that have ensured that this country has not been successfully taken by force since Louis VIII of france came over on a little jaunt against King John in 1216. (He came to be king on the invitation of some English nobles with a force of about 5000, he then proved so unpopular that he was pushed off and Henry III came in in 1217)

    My concern is that veterans and the dead from wars such as iraq 2, Korea and the actions in the former Yogoslavia, Ulster and Sierra Leone will be marginalised because they were not to defend this country or it's people.