Poor UK education standards

unicycle

Old-Salt
Unicycle - That's a fair rant. The only problem is... there are far too many examples that prove the oppososite - Or downright prove you wrong. What you read here may not be politically correct but, it's how people find things. ergo - the truth. You can deny it but you cannot disguise it.
Accept it.
Well I am a teacher and I can tell you that you are not right. I have worked in plenty of schools and trust me, the crap written here is by people who haven't been in a school since they were 16/18, and no, parents evening don't count.

Or are you lot suggesting that all we teach is military history? 5 hours a day, 5 days a week.

From personal experiance I can tell you that the kids that do well at school come from homes where the parents take an active interest in the child, their life and education. Crap parents have crap kids and there is little the schools can do to correct this.

Some of the poeple on here need to go and work in a school for a term, it might make them change their point of view. Talking crap about teaching based on their own experiance at school is just the same as the kids I teach tellimg me they know what it's like to be in the army because they play Call od Duty. It is about as far from the truth as it's possable to get.
 

llech

LE
Well I am a teacher and I can tell you that you are not right. I have worked in plenty of schools and trust me, the crap written here is by people who haven't been in a school since they were 16/18, and no, parents evening don't count.

Or are you lot suggesting that all we teach is military history? 5 hours a day, 5 days a week.

From personal experiance I can tell you that the kids that do well at school come from homes where the parents take an active interest in the child, their life and education. Crap parents have crap kids and there is little the schools can do to correct this.

Some of the poeple on here need to go and work in a school for a term, it might make them change their point of view. Talking crap about teaching based on their own experiance at school is just the same as the kids I teach tellimg me they know what it's like to be in the army because they play Call od Duty. It is about as far from the truth as it's possable to get.
Helps if the teacher is literate!:)
 
When I was doing my PhD and teaching undergraduates at one of the top British universities the level of critical thinking some of them display is appalling. It is as though they have been spoonfed all their lives and are unable to think outside the box. And about 15% of the lab reports were plagiarised as well.
We've just recently had the results of our annual Student Barometer Survey and one thing we were called to answer was that home postgrad students surveyed their application-to-decision time as being almost double that of International ones.

We don't treat their applications differently in any way, shape or form - it's just that the non-English speakers bother their arrse to read and follow the basic instructions printed in bold at the top of the front page of the form, meaning we don't have to waste time chasing them up for evidence of what they're claiming to have studied.

We're breeding a nation of half-wits.
 

unicycle

Old-Salt
You missed the Call od Duty bit too, Ilech so you need to get your eye sight checked! :)

There is a difference between literacy and typing skills. Having dyslexia makes teaching a challenge but luckly I don't have a blackboard in my classroom, that chalk and talk crap went out of style about 10 years ago.
 
We've just recently had the results of our annual Student Barometer Survey and one thing we were called to answer was that home postgrad students surveyed their application-to-decision time as being almost double that of International ones.

We don't treat their applications differently in any way, shape or form - it's just that the non-English speakers bother their arrse to read and follow the basic instructions printed in bold at the top of the front page of the form, meaning we don't have to waste time chasing them up for evidence of what they're claiming to have studied.

We're breeding a nation of half-wits.
Well according to this article:

IQ and the Wealth of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the national average IQ of the UK is 100. If the UK has so many half-wits (and yes sadly I agree with you), it makes you wonder how countries with national average IQs in the 50 - 70 region tie their shoelaces together let alone run a government.

Part of the problem is natural selection is not allowed to have free reign in anything other than a free market economy. With all the social welfare today, the heavily taxed, hardworking people with (presumably) genes for intelligence have maybe 1 child and stop because of financial considerations. Guess who are the ones breeding lots and passing on their genes?

Benefits couple claiming £30,000 for 11 children have ANOTHER on the way | Mail Online

In a zero welfare free market economy people will die, survive or flourish in accordance to their skills and will to work. A worker is due his wages; anything else is theft.
 
Well I am a teacher and I can tell you that you are not right. I have worked in plenty of schools and trust me, the crap written here is by people who haven't been in a school since they were 16/18, and no, parents evening don't count.

Or are you lot suggesting that all we teach is military history? 5 hours a day, 5 days a week.

From personal experiance I can tell you that the kids that do well at school come from homes where the parents take an active interest in the child, their life and education. Crap parents have crap kids and there is little the schools can do to correct this.

Some of the poeple on here need to go and work in a school for a term, it might make them change their point of view. Talking crap about teaching based on their own experiance at school is just the same as the kids I teach tellimg me they know what it's like to be in the army because they play Call od Duty. It is about as far from the truth as it's possable to get.
What an outstanding example of why today's youth are being churned out as half witted.

I also take umbrage at your comment about crap parents bringing up crap kids. There are a million reasons why some kids struggle to learn, despite the best efforts of the parents. As an alleged teacher, you should be acutely aware of that. If you are not and you consider the crap kids that you get are a result of crap parenting, then you need to change your job, mate. Perhaps your parents were crap though, they certainly didn't spend any time teaching you English.
 

llech

LE
You missed the Call od Duty bit too, Ilech so you need to get your eye sight checked! :)

There is a difference between literacy and typing skills. Having dyslexia makes teaching a challenge but luckly I don't have a blackboard in my classroom, that chalk and talk crap went out of style about 10 years ago.
I saw it but couldn't be arsed with any more, love Llech! :)
 

jvb1988

War Hero
There are a million reasons or a million excuses for bad parenting?. I am of no doubt that some parents struggle due to changes in circumstance , however I have seen plenty of parents who can't give two shits about their kids and who would rather spend time partying or on holiday then do anything that progresses their childs education. The lesson that should be taught is that If you cannot provide a decent and supportive upbringing to your child then you shouldn't have children full stop. I'm sympathetic to those who do try but I have seen plenty of examples where the parents would rather blame the school then any shortfalls on their part.

Many of the young parents ( your average teenage mother) fail to understand that a lack of a male rolemodel is extremely damaging to the lives of their children. As proven by recent research by the princes trust which shows some pretty steep figures for children growing up in single parent families. Unfortunatly the corrosion of respect and family means many preganant teens see their babies as fashion accesories more than a human being that needs constant support.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Well according to this article:

IQ and the Wealth of Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the national average IQ of the UK is 100. If the UK has so many half-wits (and yes sadly I agree with you), it makes you wonder how countries with national average IQs in the 50 - 70 region tie their shoelaces together let alone run a government.

Part of the problem is natural selection is not allowed to have free reign in anything other than a free market economy. With all the social welfare today, the heavily taxed, hardworking people with (presumably) genes for intelligence have maybe 1 child and stop because of financial considerations. Guess who are the ones breeding lots and passing on their genes?

Benefits couple claiming £30,000 for 11 children have ANOTHER on the way | Mail Online

In a zero welfare free market economy people will die, survive or flourish in accordance to their skills and will to work. A worker is due his wages; anything else is theft.
Ahh, anecdote and the application of generalities, without any understanding of social history, ohhh, since the origins of time, especially your last paragraph re the zero welfare market.

Spend anytime amongst released census papers, or parish records and you will understand that the small "2.4" children family is a essentially a post-war (ww2) construct. From the homeless n hoors up to Creosus riches of the aristocracy, family has in the past been big, big, big. As an example, my grandfather was 11th of 13 children and my Nan one of nine, (yeah anecdote, but the archives back me up). Mainly for the fact that disease, malnutrition, bugger all health care or clean water did for the poor and rich what Dan Browne did for intellectual literature. So your statement that families stopped breeding according to the cut of their cloth in times gone by is evidentially and factually BAAALLLLSSS!!

Further to this you have to look at wages, comparative analysis of wages today vs decades past, reveal huge differences between low and high, far, far higher than differences between the levels of rich and poor today, though evidence suggests in the US/UK the divide is once again increasing.

Going back to the central point of this thread regarding the education standards of the current generation, schools can only impart a certain amount of education, they only have limited time in order to do this, we become specialists because our interests draw our us into deeper understanding of the subject. To use a weak analogy, school organises the trip to the beach and lets us splash in the shallows, it's up to us to swim out to the reef to see the fish.

Our knowledge, of history, literature comes about through a brief introduction in school it is our love of the subject that makes us experts (thorugh dint of will and learning).

Having said that, I do think that schools could impart a far higher standard of education than they currently do, on another thread I stated I believe that students should be able to pass their S-Grades at age 14, have 5-10 Highers by age 16, two years ahead of where they are now. However what type of education they recieve is up for debate, peronally I see it as the ability to read, write, perform arithmatic and how to critically analyse a document. (the last component is supposed to be a core constituent of a number of subjects at school which is not absorbed, or drilled into the student firmly enough).
 
Spend anytime amongst released census papers, or parish records and you will understand that the small "2.4" children family is a essentially a post-war (ww2) construct. From the homeless n hoors up to Creosus riches of the aristocracy, family has in the past been big, big, big. As an example, my grandfather was 11th of 13 children and my Nan one of nine, (yeah anecdote, but the archives back me up). Mainly for the fact that disease, malnutrition, bugger all health care or clean water did for the poor and rich what Dan Browne did for intellectual literature. So your statement that families stopped breeding according to the cut of their cloth in times gone by is evidentially and factually BAAALLLLSSS!!
No it isn't.

List of sovereign states and dependent territories by fertility rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Poorer countries tend to have higher fertility rates than richer countries. As a large number of poorer families eventually sum up to make a poorer country, it follows that poorer families tend to have higher fertility rates than richer families.

The fertility rate in the UK may be 1.82 or so at present, but I would argue that working class families would have smaller numbers of children than the workshy on benefits, and the genetic heritage of the country is thus skewed towards the latter to the future's peril.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Boffin and Rampant. May I recomend the excellent Idiocrassy to you. Very funny film taking a tongue in cheek and ironic look at just that genetic problem you suggest (and yes the irony is American. Some of the Seppos must be able to get it).

The trouble as mentioned several times by several posters is indeed the lack of time in which to teach combined with having such a lot of stuff (a fair bit utter fecking rubbish) on the curriculem. My personal bugbear (that had me incandescent with rage on a couple of occasions while a trainee science teacher) was the failure to teach Scientific Method in any detail (or indeed correctly). I personally believe that the invention of Scientific Method by the Royal Society under the various Stewart kings as being the most importanmt inovation of the human race since we learned how to reliably start a fire. Every advance of note in the last 400 years or so has been as a result of the critical thinking and analysis that comes from its propper application. And we've probably advanced more in those 400 years than in all of recoirded history prior to that...

I mostly agree with your points Unicycle. Crap parents do indeed raise crap kids (I was more literate aged 3 BEFORE I went to school than some of the 16 year old mongs that would be "graduating" that sumer). And for the most part most teachers aren't too whooly headed. The problem comes from those setting policy or being appointed to high positions did seem to be a bit on the new-age PC side. For proof just look at the NC (assuming it hasn't changed much in the last 3-4 years). For a similar analogy that fits the audience on here, think of it like the Army's defeat in Basrah. The defeat came not from being out fought, out manouvered, or out flanked but from being hamstrung by politicians and brass hats safely in the UK writing ROEs and lots od other documentation that did NOTHING for the mission other than hinder it.
 
Boffin and Rampant. May I recomend the excellent Idiocrassy to you. Very funny film taking a tongue in cheek and ironic look at just that genetic problem you suggest (and yes the irony is American. Some of the Seppos must be able to get it).
Haha read the synopsis, I will definitely get around to watching this one :)

The trouble as mentioned several times by several posters is indeed the lack of time in which to teach combined with having such a lot of stuff (a fair bit utter fecking rubbish) on the curriculem. My personal bugbear (that had me incandescent with rage on a couple of occasions while a trainee science teacher) was the failure to teach Scientific Method in any detail (or indeed correctly). I personally believe that the invention of Scientific Method by the Royal Society under the various Stewart kings as being the most importanmt inovation of the human race since we learned how to reliably start a fire. Every advance of note in the last 400 years or so has been as a result of the critical thinking and analysis that comes from its propper application. And we've probably advanced more in those 400 years than in all of recoirded history prior to that...
When I was a young kid I had loads of fun with science. No one wanted to be my lab bench partner (mostly due to unscheduled experiments) but boy were those the days! My teachers back then were adventurous enough to encourage me to stay behind after school hours and use the lab for more fun experiments. Nowadays kids are kept in such straitjackets and cotton-padded rooms that it is a wonder they are allowed to play with anything more hazardous than a pencil. No teacher these days would dare encourage a kid to stay behind after hours doing anything they wanted (back then under supervision, of course).

I remember the joy when I extracted the deflagrating component in fireworks :) as a very young boy and learnt by experiment that not only does it burn outside the firework, how it burns and releases its energy can be greatly affected by surface area, confinement, etc. E.g. you can make a firecracker bang much louder if you wrap it a few times in duct tape. So when I was introduced to Reaction Kinetics in O-level chemistry I understood the concepts naturally.

So you can imagine my delight when I found out that reactant diffusion distances can be reduced even further to atomic scales through compounds with both oxidiser and fuel bonded together in the same molecule - hence detonating explosives with much higher reaction rates :)

I mostly agree with your points Unicycle. Crap parents do indeed raise crap kids (I was more literate aged 3 BEFORE I went to school than some of the 16 year old mongs that would be "graduating" that sumer). And for the most part most teachers aren't too whooly headed. The problem comes from those setting policy or being appointed to high positions did seem to be a bit on the new-age PC side. For proof just look at the NC (assuming it hasn't changed much in the last 3-4 years). For a similar analogy that fits the audience on here, think of it like the Army's defeat in Basrah. The defeat came not from being out fought, out manouvered, or out flanked but from being hamstrung by politicians and brass hats safely in the UK writing ROEs and lots od other documentation that did NOTHING for the mission other than hinder it.
Agreed.
 

unicycle

Old-Salt
What an outstanding example of why today's youth are being churned out as half witted.

I also take umbrage at your comment about crap parents bringing up crap kids. There are a million reasons why some kids struggle to learn, despite the best efforts of the parents. As an alleged teacher, you should be acutely aware of that. If you are not and you consider the crap kids that you get are a result of crap parenting, then you need to change your job, mate. Perhaps your parents were crap though, they certainly didn't spend any time teaching you English.
Give over. I teach a lot of kids who have learning difficulties and those with other social or behavioural problems, or just bottom set kids who aren’t that academic. A lot of those kids don’t let their issues get in the way and will work bloody hard to try and do as well as they possibly can. When they get poor results they crack on and re-double their efforts for next time. Those kids are a complete joy to teach and make the job enjoyable.
However there are some kids who have no SLD or ESBD but still just don’t give a crap. Their folks don’t care about their schooling so they don’t care either. They are the rude, difficult or just plain unpleasant kids that drive a lot of good people out of education.
Or do you think I should have to put up with being verbally abused in my classroom? Or threatened with physical assault? I guess that’s the school fault too is it?

Oh, and I have already pointed out that I have dyslexia, hence the rather dodgy spellling some times. You are perfect ofcourse.
 

unicycle

Old-Salt
I saw it but couldn't be arsed with any more, love Llech! :)
Fair one, sorry about the name. I will ofcourse call Ilech from now on, just to be difficult! :)
 
Well I am a teacher and I can tell you that you are not right. I have worked in plenty of schools and trust me, the crap written here is by people who haven't been in a school since they were 16/18, and no, parents evening don't count.

Or are you lot suggesting that all we teach is military history? 5 hours a day, 5 days a week.

From personal experiance I can tell you that the kids that do well at school come from homes where the parents take an active interest in the child, their life and education. Crap parents have crap kids and there is little the schools can do to correct this.

Some of the poeple on here need to go and work in a school for a term, it might make them change their point of view. Talking crap about teaching based on their own experiance at school is just the same as the kids I teach tellimg me they know what it's like to be in the army because they play Call od Duty. It is about as far from the truth as it's possable to get.


It's not helped by school reports that are an exercise in 'don't tell the parents their kids are thickies'.

Read my 10 year old Grandsons last week. Despite it being clear as daylight reading through the 'report', he can't read, write, count or spell well if at all - getting only 4 out of 100 in your maths test must be some sort of record of non achievement. Despite that, he got A's across the board in the 'report' and my daughter is convinced he's a child prodigy. She's still in a state of extreme sulk when her mother pointed out he wasn't a child genius, but thick as two short planks.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Poor knowledge of history is one thing. Poor reading, writing and arithmetic is another. But even worse is the absence of any critical thinking skills.
QFT. As I believe knowledge and education is the key to getting on in life, I am happy to devote a bit of my time to helping people who want to learn. This can range from the neighbour's kids to a friend of mine who got an MSc last year.

What strikes me above all with young kids is how poor their reasoning and critical thinking skills are. When I was as school computers were unheard of. Instead, we were given homework that involved going to the local library and using the reference section to find the answers. Nowadays, with the temptation to 'cut and paste' from the internet, I believe we are bringing up a generation of kids whose only ability to find information is via Google.

And without that need to go to a library, think, read, get a book, take notes and put into your own words what you have learned, I believe we are failing to get kids brains to develop critical skills and reasoning during their formative years.

Wordsmith
 
Last week I gave a tour to twenty seven SATT's, of that number only three had ever heard of Field Marshal Montgomery and only one of the Battle of El Alamein.
They're in distinguished company: the last Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (b 1951) had never heard of El Alamein either.
 

Latest Threads

Top