Poor UK education standards

HE117

LE
If that was the case, you'd need to be able to account for a) why it began before the Blair government and b) why it hasn't happened in other countries with rapid mass expansion of higher education.

Since you are interested in high academic standards, remind me how you'd grade a student essay which fails account for two independent observed phenomena.
Opinion is not phenomena.

Try harder...!
 
It's not a business and that's the problem. A business has an owner or owners in whose interest it is to try and ensure the minimum of corruption and inefficiency. That does not exist in a state run organisation where, usually, it will operate in the organisation's own interests, rather than that of society as a whole.

Privatise it completely.

You don't seem to have grasped that Education is not State or Local Authority run. The State just mandates the curriculum; the State hands over education funding to private trusts that are run by enterprises in the huge majority of schools Statistics Generation Units, that's it!
Education has turned to shit since the Technology Colleges nearly 30 years ago were brought in to save the Treasurey having to fork out for the complete modernisation of crumbling buildings, fixtures & fittings, equipment... For example: the notion that Computer Studies could be taught with a BBC micro per primary or 1 micro between 100 pupils in secondary. How Logo and a turtle were to be the saviour of the British economy beggars belief. Thank God for the ZX81! The Treasurey wouldn't fund the most vital learning tool of the late 20th Century.
 
I presume from that that the £10 limit applies across the board, state and private education, which seems fair enough.

I believe that in many cases in other businesses the owners seem to do pretty well financially and may be technically bankrupt but continue to live in a manner which most of their ex-employees can only dream of.

Also what are governors and trustees doing with school credit cards?

Given your background I'm sure you know whereof you speak but you're coming across as 'All state schools are perfect and all private education is a vile pool of corruption, protectionism and double standards'.

Dear me. No. I'm a Tory voter. Imagine how well that went down with some colleagues.
The "system" is rigged against state schools. Education is useful for distracting the public because we're all experts because we've all been to school. Except until you've done the other side you don't know the whole story: all NCOs are lazy brown-noses until you become one scenario.
I'm for fairness in funding, a simpler curriculum, rationalisation of qualifications (get rid of privately run exam boards that change their syllabi when they want to sell more and newer textbooks and resources - how's that for a bent system! - scrap Ofsted as they're political whores, and finally crucifiction for the politicians when they eventually fcek up, and they always do.
State education needs to be run apolitically. Perhaps an Education Synod? Or make the Sec of State a separately elected office, with a term of 11 years?
Just, as the Septics say, spit-balling there.

Edit removed duplicate post
 
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I would however not agree with you that this was a function of "customer satisfaction" as in many ways "the customer" was given a stiff ignoring..


Not in todays academies, due to metrics such as the NSS, the lunatics are now running the asylum.
 

HE117

LE
The whole concept that "Education" is a panacea lies at the root of the problem here..

Organised education has always been delivered with an ulterior motive, and in many ways the benefits have often been arrived at as unintended consequences.

For eons, education was in the grip of organised religion whose ulterior motive was to seize and maintain control of future opinion. None more so than the Jesuit sept of the Roman Catholic Church..

“Give me the child for the first seven years and I'll give you the man.”

(although this was probably a quote from Aristotle)

Do you think that limiting the teaching of Latin to only the chosen elite was not deliberate? The only reason that the Protestant Church taught "the people" to read was to allow them to access the gospels directly and break the power of the Roman Church.. with the unintended consequence that it gave Protestant countries a boost in education in the 18th and 19th Centuries.. Why do you think there were so many engineers in Scotland and the German states?

Allowing "the state" to control education is a seriously bad idea as it permits a very narrow group to dominate and misuse huge amounts of public wealth to their own ideas. We should not allow "education" to be defined by a narrow group of self interested parties. The only way to fund Academic activity is either by benefaction or sponsorship. If education is any good or of any value it is worth paying for and competition is the only way this can be determined.
This was the original reason for Public schools, to educate outside of the church.
 
A business has an owner or owners in whose interest it is to try and ensure the minimum of corruption and inefficiency.
A business has owners whose sole interest lies in realising a profit. Corruption and inefficiency can he tolerated so long as the alternatives are equally corrupt and inefficient; and the sole imperative to change is whether the change is more profitable.

If better education bites into profits, it doesn't happen. If customers want pleasing reports more than accurate ones, the business either delivers or loses business.

The only guarantor that money will not influence teaching decisions is to remove competition for money as a factor in those decisions.
 
Not in todays academies, due to metrics such as the NSS, the lunatics are now running the asylum.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the lunatics were running it. They're deciding who gets to decide how the asylum is run and imposing penalties on the asylum for not running it according to the inmates' wishes. That the inmates aren't interested in quality, sustainability or indeed anything beyond their own immediate gratification seems to be irrelevant in their minds.

It's the difference between the customer and the student: the customer is always right, but the student's entire reason for being is to be told if they're right or wrong.
 
Superb interview with Katherine Birbalsingh - Robinson searches for a 'Gotcha' (so what you are saying is...) moment but doesn't even get close because any disagreeing with her would instantly brand him as a moron. All she does is state the bleedin' obvious.

The Lefties are spitting feathers that she's now working with the Tories - they can't even do the usual of dismissing any views due to White Privilege/Racist as she's mixed race, Black/Indo-Guyanese.


I loved the subtle destruction of Nick Robinson @07:15, and the comment that she can do what she does now as she's already been 'cancelled' but is still going, they couldn't beat her and she's stronger for it.
 
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Yokel

LE
I would post something about STEM education or something like that, perhaps the lack of it at my school, but looking at the last few posts brings two question to my mind:

1. If education was private, surely the less well off get less educated? So much for social mobility.
2. If the (paying) customer gets to call the piper's tune, what about parents etc who do not value Maths and Science, or English, or other subjects?
 
I would post something about STEM education or something like that, perhaps the lack of it at my school, but looking at the last few posts brings two question to my mind:

1. If education was private, surely the less well off get less educated? So much for social mobility.
2. If the (paying) customer gets to call the piper's tune, what about parents etc who do not value Maths and Science, or English, or other subjects?
My bold. The unfortunate child gets to attend a faith school. Some irony may be intended.
 

Yokel

LE
My bold. The unfortunate child gets to attend a faith school. Some irony may be intended.

I was thinking of arty farty and progressive liberal types - feelings not facts, I am sure that one poster noted that the Steiner schools do not offer any sort of Science qualifications. The wider point is who decides what is to be taught? If it was run like a business, then popular subjects and topics would thrive, at the expense of STEM subjects.
 
I was thinking of arty farty and progressive liberal types - feelings not facts, I am sure that one poster noted that the Steiner schools do not offer any sort of Science qualifications. The wider point is who decides what is to be taught? If it was run like a business, then popular subjects and topics would thrive, at the expense of STEM subjects.
I have no problem with Steiner Schools so long as it is an informed choice.
I would have thought that STEM schools would be a better business model as the pupils should go on to better paid jobs.
IIRC the first public schools were opened to give an education to those who could afford it away from the Church.
 

Yokel

LE
I have no problem with Steiner Schools so long as it is an informed choice.
I would have thought that STEM schools would be a better business model as the pupils should go on to better paid jobs.
IIRC the first public schools were opened to give an education to those who could afford it away from the Church.

Your second sentence assumes that the parents know, but what if they are from other backgrounds? There are lots of arty farty/humanities types out there, many of them in senior positions because of connections or being able to bluff. It also ignores the issues that learning about human anatomy is going to be helpful if you have to give first aid, or deal with a bad back, learning about experimentation may help you work of why the car will not start or makes funny noises, and learning about heat transfer will help you insulate your home.
 
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