Poor UK education standards

[truck_trasher]

Great Britain is not not the same as the United Kingdom although they are often, but wrongly, used interchangeably. GB means England, Wales and Scotland. The UK means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Since 1801, when it was Ireland rather than Northern Ireland of course.

 

[ExREME.TECH]

Since 1801, when it was Ireland rather than Northern Ireland of course.

That's only an hour ago, how are we supposed to know

 

[Yokel]

@Yokel , your link there goes to Jonathan Sacks' death, not the article you're talking about.

Well done for spotting the deliberate mistake. At least someone reads my posts.

If it doesn't, there's not a lot of point to it really.

Of course, the definition of 'useful' will be up for grabs...

Many of the old and bold seem to think education should be like what it was in the 'good old days', without considering the value of it, or if things that were useful back than are useful now.

For example Science lessons teach facts, but also an idea of how to solve problems logically.

 

[ExREME.TECH]

For example Science lessons teach facts, but also an idea of how to solve problems logically.

They taught me how to blow up test tubes

 

[Kinch]

Since 1801, when it was Ireland rather than Northern Ireland of course.

Ah, no dat is when my great grandfather and grandmother were married in Ballymena...........must be an Oirish passport in there somewhere. ETA, you are probably correct though.

 

[huscarl]

@IndependentBoffin "When I was a young kid I had loads of fun with science. No one wanted to be my lab bench partner (mostly due to unscheduled experiments) but boy were those the days! My teachers back then were adventurous enough to encourage me to stay behind after school hours and use the lab for more fun experiments. Nowadays kids are kept in such straitjackets and cotton-padded rooms that it is a wonder they are allowed to play with anything more hazardous than a pencil. No teacher these days would dare encourage a kid to stay behind after hours doing anything they wanted (back then under supervision, of course).

I remember the joy when I extracted the deflagrating component in fireworks as a very young boy and learnt by experiment that not only does it burn outside the firework, how it burns and releases its energy can be greatly affected by surface area, confinement, etc. E.g. you can make a firecracker bang much louder if you wrap it a few times in duct tape. So when I was introduced to Reaction Kinetics in O-level chemistry I understood the concepts naturally.

So you can imagine my delight when I found out that reactant diffusion distances can be reduced even further to atomic scales through compounds with both oxidiser and fuel bonded together in the same molecule - hence detonating explosives with much higher reaction rates "

Didn't by chance go on to an AT/ATO did you!?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[MikeMcc]

I think in part it is because there is a wide range of media channels, kids can opt to switch to the crazy channels if they get bored. When I grew up we had three TV channels, so I watched The World at War, Tenko, The Secret War, Escape from Colditz, Pathfinders. As a teenager the documents about Ultra and Bletchley Park were released. That got me into reading up about various things, Like the Scourge of the Swastika and the Knights of Bushido. I also watched other documentaries such as the Cousteau documentaries, Horizon, Tomorrows World, all sorts of things that shaped me into who I am now. I do feel that kids (a generalization) now are becoming shallow, not following some sort of drive to improve themselves.

 

[Yokel]

I think in part it is because there is a wide range of media channels, kids can opt to switch to the crazy channels if they get bored. When I grew up we had three TV channels, so I watched The World at War, Tenko, The Secret War, Escape from Colditz, Pathfinders. As a teenager the documents about Ultra and Bletchley Park were released. That got me into reading up about various things, Like the Scourge of the Swastika and the Knights of Bushido. I also watched other documentaries such as the Cousteau documentaries, Horizon, Tomorrows World, all sorts of things that shaped me into who I am now. I do feel that kids (a generalization) now are becoming shallow, not following some sort of drive to improve themselves.

I would largely agree with that.

1. Are kids empowered to understand that they can and should do things for themselves - cooking a meal, simple household repairs, working out how many tiles you need for a wall, that sort of thing?

2. Do kids have fiction (or non fiction) with a heroic narrative?

 

[Filthy_contract]

I


I would largely agree with that.

1. Are kids empowered to understand that they can and should do things for themselves - cooking a meal, simple household repairs, working out how many tiles you need for a wall, that sort of thing?

They'll look on YouTube to see how to do it.

 

[Mike Barton]

They'll look on YouTube to see how to do it.

Just like the rest of us then, really.

 

[Yokel]

They'll look on YouTube to see how to do it.

Would they? Would they have the instinct to try - or would they woefully post on social media? I am thinking of all the people who posted on Facebook that they were hungry and felt sad when KFC had a supply problem.

What would they do it the event of a network outage?

 

[Filthy_contract]

Would they? Would they have the instinct to try - or would they woefully post on social media? I am thinking of all the people who posted on Facebook that they were hungry and felt sad when KFC had a supply problem.

What would they do it the event of a network outage?

I'm not defending this but my son - who has absolutely no mechanical aptitude - happily changed the wiper motor in his little Fiat, simply by following it on YouTube. Clearly no substitute for an apprenticeship or an engineering degree and certification, but we have to accept ways of learning have changed.

 

[fraudstar]

I'm not defending this but my son - who has absolutely no mechanical aptitude - happily changed the wiper motor in his little Fiat, simply by following it on YouTube. Clearly no substitute for an apprenticeship or an engineering degree and certification, but we have to accept ways of learning have changed.

People learn in different ways. Some people are visual learners, others kinesthetic. I suspect more people are better at learning from a video from a manual. More still from doing it a few times (and getting it wrong, and working out why it is wrong) than just seeing a video a few times. It is almost as if, apprenticeships were designed for those who are better at that kind of learning than academic learning.

eta @Yokel tag.

and second eta that many army schools are looking at ways to create a "blended learning environment" to accommodate how different soldiers learn

 

[Yokel]

I'm not defending this but my son - who has absolutely no mechanical aptitude - happily changed the wiper motor in his little Fiat, simply by following it on YouTube. Clearly no substitute for an apprenticeship or an engineering degree and certification, but we have to accept ways of learning have changed.

I have no problem with that, and I am quite impressed. Your son was able to work out what needed doing, had the gumption to find out how to do it, and had the ability to do the work. No different to looking in a manual - and needed mechanical ability.

I am talking about those who would not have a thought to do anything - as someone else will take responsibility.

 

[Nimbus]

@IndependentBoffin "When I was a young kid I had loads of fun with science. No one wanted to be my lab bench partner (mostly due to unscheduled experiments) but boy were those the days! My teachers back then were adventurous enough to encourage me to stay behind after school hours and use the lab for more fun experiments. Nowadays kids are kept in such straitjackets and cotton-padded rooms that it is a wonder they are allowed to play with anything more hazardous than a pencil. No teacher these days would dare encourage a kid to stay behind after hours doing anything they wanted (back then under supervision, of course).

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pre COVID, most schools had some kind of STEM programme. Sure, limited by somewhat more stringent H&S requirements than when most ARRSERS were at school, but at least we don’t have to fret about chalk dust and broken slates...

 

[Yokel]

pre COVID, most schools had some kind of STEM programme. Sure, limited by somewhat more stringent H&S requirements than when most ARRSERS were at school, but at least we don’t have to fret about chalk dust and broken slates...

Do local companies get invited to contribute to STEM type events? After all, the kids will want employment when the leave education, and the firms will want good recruits. I think it would also be good PR for the companies. Win win for everyone. It might get the kids interested too.

Is that what STEM Ambassadors are for?

 

[Ortholith]

People learn in different ways. Some people are visual learners, others kinesthetic.

There's no good evidence for that and it's pretty much fallen out of favour in education. We're busy reinventing the wheel in other ways.

Give it 20 years and we'll come back to VAK learners but with fancy new names and consultants making a packet out of the rebranding.

 

[Nimbus]

Would they? Would they have the instinct to try - or would they woefully post on social media? I am thinking of all the people who posted on Facebook that they were hungry and felt sad when KFC had a supply problem.

What would they do it the event of a network outage?

Good question... My BIL went to Oxford, has a brain the size of a planet, gets a bigger bonus than I’ve ever earned in a year, but if you put a tool in his hand, he will hurt himself. If something breaks, his wife orders a new one, or calls a man (or her 82yr old dad) to come and fix it. BIL got a very good education, I went to 7 different schools in 3 countries, but my dad fished around in skips at work and brought me junk to play with (One week, it was a Turn & Slip indicator, a magnetron and a box of time expired SARBE batteries). Yes, you can read about the shallow end of the gene pool in the papers, but ‘child fixed punctured bike tyre’ is not going to sell papers so is largely ignored. Social media is full of shoite, but it’s also full of amazing stuff - just take a look in the more esoteric threads on here (eg the photography and military modelling threads) and you will see that there are folks who treat problems as entertaining diversions and don’t feel the need to bleat to the world about it.

 

[Turret_Monster]

Do local companies get invited to contribute to STEM type events? After all, the kids will want employment when the leave education, and the firms will want good recruits. I think it would also be good PR for the companies. Win win for everyone. It might get the kids interested too.

Is that what STEM Ambassadors are for?

Yes, and yes. My company has been doing this for some years now.

 

[Nimbus]

Do local companies get invited to contribute to STEM type events? After all, the kids will want employment when the leave education, and the firms will want good recruits. I think it would also be good PR for the companies. Win win for everyone. It might get the kids interested too.

Is that what STEM Ambassadors are for?

I’ve worked on STEM projects with David Brown, Cummins, Jaguar Landrover and Huddersfield Town football club, as well as local FE colleges and Universities and Rotary (etc) clubs. So yes, I’ve had students gain apprenticeships with, and blag sponsorship from DB, JLR and Cummins, not to mention a cupboard of trophies.

Not a bad result when you’re 14.