Poor UK education standards

lextalionis

Old-Salt
Nope, I'm a scruffy lazy bastard. I just happen to quite like teaching (the paperwork can get fucked).


Dreadful is a strong word. Having spent time in a Requires Improvement school things are pretty much golden in decent schools. Most of it depends on the management team - if they have a spine and are willing to stand up to parents then there's no real issue. If they actually go out of their way to back teachers then it's a paradise (that doesn't happen often).

If management are scared of parents then you're fucked, no matter how good things look on the outside. I heard some interesting comments from a teacher at one of the UK's most prestigious public schools who was moaning about how parents demanded grade As (it was about 8 years ago) despite their child being thick as two short planks. The argument was if the parents are paying £40k per term then the kid should get As.
I think my expectations for behaviour are roughly those of the 1950s, but I seem to get them somehow. I once got rid of two pupils because they spoke ill of Wilfred Owen, MC. I think they failed their exams.

You get the behaviour you expect, to a certain degree. Not that that ever stopped some little shyte throwing chairs.
 
I think my expectations for behaviour are roughly those of the 1950s, but I seem to get them somehow. I once got rid of two pupils because they spoke ill of Wilfred Owen, MC. I think they failed their exams.
Fugginell, can I have you for a governor?

I approve of the sentiment but not the outcome.
 

lextalionis

Old-Salt
Fugginell, can I have you for a governor?

I approve of the sentiment but not the outcome.
My game; my rules.

It works. I enjoy my job, my pupils benefit and I will probably be doing this for a number of years.
 
My game; my rules.
Fair enough, I'm just uneasy at people being unable to criticise which is what I took from your post. I've had kids argue that the British involvement in WWI was totally unnecessary and should have been avoided as a pointless waste of life.

Given one of them had just walked down from the Devonshire's trench I agreed with her at that point in time.
 

lextalionis

Old-Salt
It wasn't criticism, which would be fair enough, but complete indifference and lack of respect to his valour and sacrifice.

There are lines you don't cross and that's one of them.

With other, less noxious students, I have helped them go from grade 3 to grade 7 in one year.
 
I heard some interesting comments from a teacher at one of the UK's most prestigious public schools who was moaning about how parents demanded grade As (it was about 8 years ago) despite their child being thick as two short planks. The argument was if the parents are paying £40k per term then the kid should get As.
Maybe they’re ‘G&T’...
For those not in the know, kids are identified as ‘Gifted and Talented’ in Junior school. If you’re born on the 31st of August, you can be in the same year group as someone born on the 1st September the year before, yet be a year younger. This is a big difference when you’re 7 or 8 so the ‘smartest’ kids in the year group are often those that are the oldest, but the G&T label is in your docs and stays there. By the time GCSEs come around the playing field has levelled somewhat but the G&T kids will still have a higher target grade despite now being merely ‘average’. Teachers are expected to get them to achieve it, or it’s interview without pink wafers time... and then there are the kids who think because their target grade is a ‘B’ (or 7 or whatever) then that’s what they’re going to get so no work is required...
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Bumped into (not literally) an ex student, he recognised me despite teaching him at least 7 years ago. Clearly I made some sort of impression.

Also saw a group of 18 year olds in the pub and I taught at least half of them. They smiled and waved.

Nothing about education standards but it was nice that the little shits remember me.
 
Nothing about education standards but it was nice that the little shits remember me.
Well, you never forget your first sexual experience.
 
The latest bit of petulant toddler behaviour from the NEU - Public Sector Pay

Essentially, they demanded a 7% increase in pay for all teachers and are now chucking teddies when they've been told no. I noticed they were careful not to actually provide the extremely detailed government response which is here - https://assets.publishing.service.g...ta/file/859208/STRB_Written_Evidence_2020.pdf

It all seems very reasonable. The government's response for the STRB essentially boils down to 'There is a limited amount of cash available. We would rather give people starting teaching more of that cash to try and keep more of them in the job. We will give everyone a pay rise but those just starting will see more of that money'.

I've only got through 26 pages of the report before I got bored but it's all well thought out and explained so far, definitely better than the NEU's response.

Edit - and the actual report was published today and available here - School Teachers’ Review Body 30th report: 2020

Again, suspiciously not referenced or linked to in the NEU ranting. Personally, given that the economy is going to be fucked as a result of COVID-19 and the associated lockdown(s), a pay rise for everyone of 2.75% (and more for people starting teaching) is a bloody good deal when you take into account the job security and holidays.

Bearing in mind that academies are outside of local authority control and can set their own pay for staff I can't help feeling the NEU are tilting at windmills on this one. And they wonder why the public think teachers are twats when all the public see are this bunch of entitled whining cnuts.
 
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endure

GCM
Bumped into (not literally) an ex student, he recognised me despite teaching him at least 7 years ago. Clearly I made some sort of impression.

Also saw a group of 18 year olds in the pub and I taught at least half of them. They smiled and waved.

Nothing about education standards but it was nice that the little shits remember me.

I can remember every one of the teachers I had in secondary school. Admittedly I probably wouldn't recognise them today even with the coffin lids off ;-)
 

Yokel

LE
What effects, if any, will the experience of COVID-19 and its effect on society and the economy have on education in terms of policy and syllabus? I am thinking of things like:

1. Fewer High Street retail jobs in future.
2. Fewer hospitality jobs.
3. Fewer offices full of worker bees
4. The importance of key workers has been demonstrated
5. The importance of medical, nursing, and caring occupations has been shown
6. Scientists and Engineers have been involved in the crisis response
7. People lacking self reliance and basic practical skills struggled more during lockdown
8. People need to understand basic hygiene
9. People need to understand the difference between bacteria and viruses
10. People need to be able to understand graphs and numerical information
 
What effects, if any, will the experience of COVID-19 and its effect on society and the economy have on education in terms of policy and syllabus? I am thinking of things like:

1. Fewer High Street retail jobs in future.
2. Fewer hospitality jobs.
3. Fewer offices full of worker bees
4. The importance of key workers has been demonstrated
5. The importance of medical, nursing, and caring occupations has been shown
6. Scientists and Engineers have been involved in the crisis response
7. People lacking self reliance and basic practical skills struggled more during lockdown
8. People need to understand basic hygiene
9. People need to understand the difference between bacteria and viruses
10. People need to be able to understand graphs and numerical information
Points 1-7 are irrelevant. No change.

Points 8-10 should be addressed by the current system but it's a case of banging heads against a brick wall. No change.

I'm off to the pub.
 

lextalionis

Old-Salt
What effects, if any, will the experience of COVID-19 and its effect on society and the economy have on education in terms of policy and syllabus? I am thinking of things like:

1. Fewer High Street retail jobs in future.
2. Fewer hospitality jobs.
3. Fewer offices full of worker bees
4. The importance of key workers has been demonstrated
5. The importance of medical, nursing, and caring occupations has been shown
6. Scientists and Engineers have been involved in the crisis response
7. People lacking self reliance and basic practical skills struggled more during lockdown
8. People need to understand basic hygiene
9. People need to understand the difference between bacteria and viruses
10. People need to be able to understand graphs and numerical information
My impression is that the growing divide between the professionally-skilled (doctors, nurses, managers, even teachers...) will continue to widen in terms of pay, status and security. Donna, who works in the 'airdressers, and Pete, who works in the Red Lion, will find life more precarious than before, bitterly regretting not listening at "skewl". The underclass may have been permanently expanded.

In terms of hygiene and public health, this may have been a necessary kick up the backside for many, but the British tend to either complacency or panic, without much in between. I imagine the habitual grottiness will return in due course. I now see abandoned facemasks with as much frequency in the street as dog sh1t, alas.

In terms of people's grasp of data and statistics, it has been truly shocking. We are finally reaping the rewards of comprehensivisation.
 

Yokel

LE
I meant will there be increases emphasis on STEM subjects and teaching basic practical and life skills? The increased emphasis on STEM would help us manufacture our future. It was already a Government aspiration to increase the amount of GDP provided by manufacturing from 30% to 35%.

The service and retail sectors are likely to shrink.
 
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I meant will there be increased emphasis on STEM subjects and teaching basic practical and life skills?
No.
The increased emphasis on STEM would help us manufacture our future. It was already a Government aspiration to increase the amount of FDP provided by manufacturing from 30% to 35%.
I'm not sure you're being realistic about this. Say there's a massive investment in STEM careers starting this September in secondary schools. Hit them then (frankly 12 is the realistic latest you can really influence a kid) and they have another 8 years minimum (3 years school, 2 years college, 3 years uni) to being a qualified engineer with zero real experience.

Changes in schooling lag behind a lot of things. We should have been putting those plans in place in 2012 to get the throughput of engineers now.
 

endure

GCM
No.

I'm not sure you're being realistic about this. Say there's a massive investment in STEM careers starting this September in secondary schools. Hit them then (frankly 12 is the realistic latest you can really influence a kid) and they have another 8 years minimum (3 years school, 2 years college, 3 years uni) to being a qualified engineer with zero real experience.

Changes in schooling lag behind a lot of things. We should have been putting those plans in place in 2012 to get the throughput of engineers now.

If we're going to increase manufacturing we need plenty of vocational apprenticeships as well.
 
I meant will there be increases emphasis on STEM subjects and teaching basic practical and life skills? The increased emphasis on STEM would help us manufacture our future. It was already a Government aspiration to increase the amount of GDP provided by manufacturing from 30% to 35%.

The service and retail sectors are likely to shrink.
Services shrink in PROPORTION of the total.

With more folk making things, there should be more cash to spend in the pubs, and in the 'air-dressers ?!
 

Yokel

LE
The Service sector of the economy is very likely to shrink post COV!D-19. Conventional retail was struggling anyway. We are too reliant on both as a source of employment and for producing GDP.

Pre COVID-19 HM Government already expressed a view that the 30% of GDP provide by manufacturing (and exporting) ought to be increased to 35%. This will have implications for education.
 

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