Poor UK education standards

Back in the day, when a smack with a belt was an acceptable and normal part of schooling, the problem was also passed along.

School ( belt included ) - Special School - Approved School and finally Borstal.

As a recent leaver from the ranks - You should be all too familiar with long procedures to get rid of undesirables.
Back when canning was acceptable, most children behaved after getting a whack so there was no need to pass them along to someone else.

Its possible to get rid of people in Army a lot quicker, certain people hold it up. However the difference is that the Army has people who are aware of future consequences when they get hoofed out, not quite the same for children.
 

Offa

War Hero
The government decided that children must stay in education or training until 18.
However 50% of the population are below average intelligence, this doesn’t mean that they are mongs, but many are not suitable for higher education. Sadly, we don’t have enough factories/pits/mills/chimneys to absorb them so we have to try and educate them As best as we can.
Many would be pleased to leave school at 15 and get a job, and having the big lads slap them around and nail their boots to the floor might give them a better chance at life they trying to get their heads round algebra and French verbs.
There will always be those who think they’re going to be footballers, games testers, or drug lords, these kids should be rounded up into gangs picking litter to actually earn benefits, maybe then they will appreciate the education they could have had for free.
The cane/
The government decided that children must stay in education or training until 18.
However 50% of the population are below average intelligence, this doesn’t mean that they are mongs, but many are not suitable for higher education. Sadly, we don’t have enough factories/pits/mills/chimneys to absorb them so we have to try and educate them As best as we can.
Many would be pleased to leave school at 15 and get a job, and having the big lads slap them around and nail their boots to the floor might give them a better chance at life they trying to get their heads round algebra and French verbs.
There will always be those who think they’re going to be footballers, games testers, or drug lords, these kids should be rounded up into gangs picking litter to actually earn benefits, maybe then they will appreciate the education they could have had for free.
The cane/belt/ strap is not the answer.
Tazers, however...
Raising the school leaving age (ROSLA) was introduced in 1972. Cynics may say there were no sound educational reasons for this, but it was politically expedient to massage the increasing unemployment figures. a great many of those 15 year olds affected were resentful and disrupted their final year. The school leaving age will never be lowered again; for many, thanks to almost universal expectation to go on to university for another three years, this postpones entering the jobs market - which is overcrowded with inflated degrees. And then there's the student loans issue: Blair, Clegg and Cameron enjoyed free university education, but happily heaped debts on a generation.
 
Back when canning was acceptable, most children behaved after getting a whack so there was no need to pass them along to someone else.
Really ?

Is that why there was a very well defined path of School - Special School - Approved School ?

Gang life was also rife - As was the violence associated with gang life, although I will concede that stabby stabby and shooty shooty was not as high on the agenda in those days as it appear to be today.

The disruptive retards were quickly removed from mainstream schooling, allowing decent, hard working students to benefit from a decent education, without being dragged down / dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
 
What they teach at school is . . . . Nothing.
Strangely, you managed to read a comment and reply in English (Incorrect use of ellipsis excepted) using some form of technology.
Osmosis obviously.
 
Have you considered that for a reasonable percentage of troublemakers the poor behaviour is to hide the fact they can't do the work? Not that they are necessarily thick but their poor literacy / numeracy / problem solving / resilience leads them to give up. It is psychologically preferable for some to refuse to try as that way they cannot 'fail'.
A pretty good definition of thick in anyone's book.
 
A pretty good definition of thick in anyone's book.
Not really. If you had never been taught to read that wouldn't make you any stupider or cleverer than you are now. Most 'thick' boys can rattle off the names of hundreds of football players with their corresponding teams and roles. They are not incapable of learning.

The same way you can give me an IQ test written in English and I'll be slightly above average but give me the exact same test translated into Mandarin and I'd have the IQ of a boiled cabbage. My capacity for reasoning and learning hasn't diminished but that's not what's being assessed.
 
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Not really. If you had never been taught to read that wouldn't make you any stupider or cleverer than you are now. Most 'thick' boys can rattle off the names of hundreds of football players with their corresponding teams and roles. They are not incapable of learning.

The same way you can give me an IQ test written in English and I'll be slightly above average but give me the exact same test translated into Mandarin and I'd have the IQ of a boiled cabbage. My capacity for reasoning and learning hasn't diminished but that's not what's being assessed.
True, I’ve seen traveller kids unable to read and write aged 15, but who can perform cash calculations in a flash.
 
Ill phrase it another way, why would kids care about going to a PRU if they are all likely to go there together?

Also once they are there, why would they want to leave once they have made friends there?

Did this country have a culture of kids queuing up to get smacked so they would get kudos of their mates when corporal punishment was legal?

My bold .. the secondary deterrent of corporal punishment in schools was after the pain, which if administered with enough force was enough to make the hardest bully yelp/cry with pain and have difficulty sitting down for a while, was the humiliation, being seen to yelp/cry by ones peers. That was often a real deterrent, few would be "hard cases" like to be seen whimpering by their friends, or in the case of bullies, their victims.
In my Grammar school, apart from a few summary clips around the ear in class by the relevant master, all serious punishment was done on the stage at assembly in front of the whole school.
Be sufficiently naughty, the class teacher or a prefect (who kept order in the corridors between lessons and who seemed to have a lot more disciplinary power than todays teachers) would send you to the headmaster, who after listening to both sides, would decide on your punishment and carry it out next day in front of whole school.
I might add this was quite rare, perhaps once a term or less. I only appeared on stage once in the fourth year when I got on the wrong side of a prefect in the corridor & got 3 of the best for my trouble.
Generally speaking our school was good, virtually no disruption, any stupidity swiftly dealt with. Seemingly a lot better than the pathetic attitudes today!
I left school a week before my 16th birthday with 7 'O' levels, (my family couldn't afford to keep me there any longer as they needed my pay packet), despite several appeals from the school to my family, for me to stay on and go to University where my teachers reckoned I would have strolled through a history or geography degree in a good redbrick Uni.
We regularly got 6th formers winning scholarships to "Oxbridge" and approx. 30/40% of pupils went to Uni.
 

endure

GCM
My bold .. the secondary deterrent of corporal punishment in schools was after the pain, which if administered with enough force was enough to make the hardest bully yelp/cry with pain and have difficulty sitting down for a while, was the humiliation, being seen to yelp/cry by ones peers. That was often a real deterrent, few would be "hard cases" like to be seen whimpering by their friends, or in the case of bullies, their victims.
In my Grammar school, apart from a few summary clips around the ear in class by the relevant master, all serious punishment was done on the stage at assembly in front of the whole school.
In mine it was done in private in the Deputy Headmaster's study.
 
My bold .. the secondary deterrent of corporal punishment in schools was after the pain, which if administered with enough force was enough to make the hardest bully yelp/cry with pain and have difficulty sitting down for a while, was the humiliation, being seen to yelp/cry by ones peers. That was often a real deterrent, few would be "hard cases" like to be seen whimpering by their friends, or in the case of bullies, their victims.
In my Grammar school, apart from a few summary clips around the ear in class by the relevant master, all serious punishment was done on the stage at assembly in front of the whole school.
Be sufficiently naughty, the class teacher or a prefect (who kept order in the corridors between lessons and who seemed to have a lot more disciplinary power than todays teachers) would send you to the headmaster, who after listening to both sides, would decide on your punishment and carry it out next day in front of whole school.
I might add this was quite rare, perhaps once a term or less. I only appeared on stage once in the fourth year when I got on the wrong side of a prefect in the corridor & got 3 of the best for my trouble.
Generally speaking our school was good, virtually no disruption, any stupidity swiftly dealt with. Seemingly a lot better than the pathetic attitudes today!
I left school a week before my 16th birthday with 7 'O' levels, (my family couldn't afford to keep me there any longer as they needed my pay packet), despite several appeals from the school to my family, for me to stay on and go to University where my teachers reckoned I would have strolled through a history or geography degree in a good redbrick Uni.
We regularly got 6th formers winning scholarships to "Oxbridge" and approx. 30/40% of pupils went to Uni.
not to take anything away but, are you suggesting pupils only behaved through fear of the cane?

or that had you not been caned you would have continued down a path to being a wrong ‘un?
 
not to take anything away but, are you suggesting pupils only behaved through fear of the cane?

or that had you not been caned you would have continued down a path to being a wrong ‘un?


My bold some definitely, we had a few quite tough (to us) characters who would have delighted in bullying some of the weaker/softer kids, when caught out & punished they rarely if ever bullied again!
The delight on those that had been bullied, faces when these "hard" boys were seen yelping & whimpering after being caned on the stage was evident, knowing these bullies were getting a taste of their own medicine!
 
My bold some definitely, we had a few quite tough (to us) characters who would have delighted in bullying some of the weaker/softer kids, when caught out & punished they rarely if ever bullied again!
The delight on those that had been bullied, faces when these "hard" boys were seen yelping & whimpering after being caned on the stage was evident, knowing these bullies were getting a taste of their own medicine!
If these bullies were removed from the school, would the effect on the other pupils have been the same ie cessation of bullying?
 
As an antidote to this thread - if for nothing else - I was pleased to stumble across this programme last night, with (apparently) another episode tonight, Wed 02APR2020 . . . .

 
I am not sure it is. The lower orders are, generally, less bright, less productive and, from an economic perspective, less useful. When I teach the lower orders, it feels like pulling teeth. They are often in the habit of blaming others for their relative lack of success and they usually begrudge and envy others' achievements.

The lower orders keep themselves where they are, no-one else.
And who keeps those doughty competitors for Monty Python's Upper Class Twit of the Year award where they are?
 

Yokel

LE
I am not sure it is. The lower orders are, generally, less bright, less productive and, from an economic perspective, less useful. When I teach the lower orders, it feels like pulling teeth. They are often in the habit of blaming others for their relative lack of success and they usually begrudge and envy others' achievements.

The lower orders keep themselves where they are, no-one else.
Lower orders?

When the BBC made a number of documentaries about our high technology industries, such as submarine building or making jet engines, one of the things demonstrated was the way the high tech sectors depend not just on the academic types with letters after their names, but also on the hands on workers such as welders, fitters, electricians, and so on.

STEM types and the practically able are dependent on each other.

Similarly if a study is done into the current crisis in x years time, and what occupational groups and skills reacted to the crisis and the need for extra equipment, testing, building, and patient care, as well as trying to keep the country going, it would be illuminating.
 
Felt quite smug frankly when out with SWMBO (retired Primary Senior Teacher) in Tesco...at a safe distance.
Had a nice verbal exchange with parents we know well of 2 late primary aged "My Little Princesses". They have been trying to home educate their little darlings for a few weeks with complete failure to get them to even sit down "In One's Conservatory".

SWMBO assured them they could borrow her weapons grade Lochgelly Tawse (a truly awesome peace-keeping implement.) She actually still has it as a keep sake from the good 'ol days. They declined...and seemed stupid enough to actually believe it was a genuine offer.

Her tactics, with a new post summer class, worked a treat back in the day. Just give the ( known) trouble makers, usually boys, enough rope to hang themselves with a set of 3 substantial warnings over say a couple of weeks, then cross-hand "four of the best". Job jobbed. Never got one complaint...but that was then and look what we have now in the classrooms.

Our own kid got it from Mumsy when he was 11, and he royally deserved it. A little matter of smuggling an air rifle into the house and pigeon popping out his bedroom window. SWMBO likes birds. It was not so much that but the defiance when challenged. I think he bagged a couple and chucked them into a neighbour's garden. I was actually quite proud...but I kept that to myself. Seemed to do the trick. At least he went a good deal less gobby for a few weeks. In any case he ended up doing 2 deployments with better equipment doing a proper job.;)

Any parents out there at the end of their tether?
You can get 'em off Fleabay, but I'd advise Gaffering their gobs first, as they will squeal like stuck pigs especially entitled Starbuck gopping /Iphone/ Snapchat droning / Cant cook-won't cook Millennials who won't bloody leave.
Never too late for a jolly good leatherin' even if it hurts you more than them.
However, when beating them with gusto to maintain their morale, bear in mind they may be choosing your Nursing Home one day.
Harrumph. Happy Easter. Not.
 
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Yokel

LE
Interesting that you think that there is necessarily a distinction there.

Not necessarily - however some very practically able people might struggle with abstract theory, and some academic types (like me) are not so great in terms of practical skills. The idea would be to have both skillsets.

I was responding to @lextalionis (an ex public schoolboy and arts graduate I bet) and his hopefully jestful comments about the 'lower orders'. The 'elite' seems to despise both groups mentioned above.
 
School discipline is easy.

Tie it to benefits.

If you're not employable, no benefits.

Employability could be based on a high school certificate of achievement. Indicating no less than five E grades (or numbers) in English, Maths and three other subjects, an attendance rate of 85% on time, and a discipline record of an acceptable standard.

No certificate? Sounds like you need to go to college and prove that you can turn up and be good and get the required GCSE passes.

Severe miscreants, especially those that hit teachers, should be sent to special schools. Not special departments within schools, get em gone. Away from the family in a residential setting where fast food and e numbers do not make an appearance.

Whilst they're away, the family don't require child benefit or other payments for that child. If they can afford it, contributions to their spawn's upkeep will be gratefully received.
 

4(T)

LE
Not necessarily - however some very practically able people might struggle with abstract theory, and some academic types (like me) are not so great in terms of practical skills. The idea would be to have both skillsets.

I was responding to @lextalionis (an ex public schoolboy and arts graduate I bet) and his hopefully jestful comments about the 'lower orders'. The 'elite' seems to despise both groups mentioned above.

I took "lower orders" to mean the sub section of society that wilfully rejects both education and useful employment, and not those who are merely not suited to academic study but go onto practical pursuits.
 

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