That’s the original suggestion.
I was after the bit where operating schools on the basis of criminal gangs didn’t end up with a society that operated like a criminal gang
That’s the original suggestion.
I'll repeat from my previous post: Put sanctions in place and enforce them (the key bit) and a lot of the 'middle ground' poor behaviour reduces. If you then get rid of the seriously disruptive ones problem solved. To be honest, I wouldn't care if it wasn't a deterrent at all providing they are no longer preventing other students from learning.Ill phrase it another way, why would kids care about going to a PRU if they are all likely to go there together?
Also once they are there, why would they want to leave once they have made friends there?
Who mentioned them queueing up to get whacked?Did this country have a culture of kids queuing up to get smacked so they would get kudos of their mates when corporal punishment was legal?
Once again you are just passing the problem along,I'll repeat from my previous post: Put sanctions in place and enforce them (the key bit) and a lot of the 'middle ground' poor behaviour reduces. If you then get rid of the seriously disruptive ones problem solved. To be honest, I wouldn't care if it wasn't a deterrent at all providing they are no longer preventing other students from learning.
I assume they would be if they wanted the status, I dont think they did.Who mentioned them queueing up to get whacked?
One could also contend that letting the experts have their run has led to a decline in respect and discipline.It's turning out as if parents and politicians think they know best, the one because they have working genitalia and the other because their lies were more convincing that another lots.
If the education agenda had ever been controlled by the experts then that might very well have been the cause-and-effect link.One could also contend that letting the experts have their run has led to a decline in respect and discipline.
Educationalists and behavioural experts have long had an influence.If the education agenda had ever been controlled by the experts then that might very well have been the cause-and-effect link.
Since teachers have long been relegated to sweeping up the aftermath of politicians' pandering, I don't think it is.
and the reward of being in a gang, often greater than a decent gcse or two.Unless I misinterpreted it earlier in this thread a link was established between the disciplinary procedures in gangs and corporal punishment in school.
Gangs appear to have an effective disciplinary system based on the use of violence and or the threat of violence, it was inferred that the use of violence in schools would have the same result, with the approved method of inflicting the violence being corporal punishment.
However (there is always a however or but) surely in the case of the gangs it is the threat of the violence escalating from its initial lower tariff, a beating say, through the breaking of fingers, legs etc to the ultimate sanction of death that maintains the discipline.
I am unable to see how this system can be transferred to the educational system as it would be stuck in the lower level tariff unless people have in mind some way of escalating the punishment.
Given the numbers involved and length of the arguments it’s a hell of an investment in time and effort for a simple bite, though from what I have seen on here you could well be onto something.and the reward of being in a gang, often greater than a decent gcse or two.
and the idea a self-selecting group with a disposition to criminality is representative of the population writ large.
it’s as if someone is using a silly example to get a bite.
Not really. While stacker is capable of starting an argument in an empty room he's put his points forward, admitted where he's made mistakes and forced me to actually think hard about my ideas. It's been quite a good discussion.it’s as if someone is using a silly example to get a bite.
Yes. Removing a problem from a situation that does not have the resources to deal with that problem and transferring to a specialist situation.Once again you are just passing the problem along,
Pretty big 'if' there.If they are being disruptive and a smack cures them, why would you go through a long procedure to permanently get rid of them?
There's a big difference between punishment being a status symbol and queueing up to be punished. ASBOs were viewed as such when they were first introduced but there weren't queues of teenagers outside the cop shop demanding they get their own ASBO. The same way there are some rappers boasting about being sent to prison or getting shot but they don't seem quite as keen on volunteering to repeat the experience.I assume they would be if they wanted the status, I dont think they did.
What they teach at school is . . . . Nothing.I give tours to young soldiers around the military museum in which I work and am amazed at how poor their grasp of British history is.
Last week I gave a tour to twenty seven SATT's, of that number only three had ever heard of Field Marshal Montgomery and only one of the Battle of El Alamein. Only two knew we had fought the Japanese during the Second World War. The only one who knew of Arnhem saw it on a film.
Several thought that British involvement in WWII ended with the Battle of Britain and after the Americans joined the War they did all the fighting.
They thought we simply went into our Anderson shelters or the London Underground, ate rations and listened to Vera Lyn whilst the Americans sent a Band of Brothers to Save Private Ryan.
What on earth are they teaching at school?
You're right. They come in, sit down and we play on phones for an hour. Then they go elsewhere for another 5 hours of fun and games.What they teach at school is . . . . Nothing.
Interesting comment; Minds me of one occasion when all four of us in a dorm got one from Matron when she copped a booby trapped door, that had been set up so we could get a nights sleep from another raiding dorm. I think I was nine or ten. So we copped it from her for injured pride. Plain fact was it was misbehaviour-generated by other misbehaviour. I don't think the DfE was quite the same then.So a smacked arse will miraculously undo years of crap parenting?
Modelling behaviour management and schools on biker gangs might not go down that well with the DfE either.
Back in the day, when a smack with a belt was an acceptable and normal part of schooling, the problem was also passed along.Once again you are just passing the problem along,
If they are being disruptive and a smack cures them, why would you go through a long procedure to permanently get rid of them?