Poor UK education standards

lextalionis

Old-Salt
Isn't the problem with education today the embrace of egalitarianism? The idea that everyone can or should do "well" is a very strange one. It doesn't survive much contact with reality.

In Singapore, which have a strong claim to have the world's best educational system, corporal punishment is used but I think that the very strong sense of competition (in which egalitarianism has no place) undergirds how well they do. Teachers are respected; behaviour is excellent; pupils are very much accountable. They know that life is a competition and there are no prizes for mere existence.
 
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My mate is a teacher to 5/6 year olds, she said 40-60% percent when they come to here are still wearing nappies. The parent, thinks its the teaching assistant to toilet train them.
Not parents
These so-called "parents" need a cut in benefits or pensions. Make people aware of this before they decide to have kids. This also applies to the father, even if he is no longer with the family. Choose your partner wisely, or face consequences later in life.
 
My mate is a teacher to 5/6 year olds, she said 40-60% percent when they come to here are still wearing nappies. The parent, thinks its the teaching assistant to toilet train them.
Not parents
As backward and third world as SA is, that wouldn't happen in these parts. The peer pressure alone would cause accelerated learning that would make your nose bleed.

Abdicating personal responsibility and letting the nanny state look after you was always going to have that result for some.
 
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mcphee1948

War Hero
Perhaps no-one should be allowed to have children, without first passing a test to establish parental competence.

But how would that be enforced in a modern liberal world?
 

lextalionis

Old-Salt
Parental licences would be silly, but there is an alternative.

You simply stop paying child benefit and giving preference to "families". The "poor" would then cease to have quite so many little darlings. Half the problem would then be solved.
 

ExREME..TECH

On ROPS
On ROPs
These so-called "parents" need a cut in benefits or pensions. Make people aware of this before they decide to have kids. This also applies to the father, even if he is no longer with the family. Choose your partner wisely, or face consequences later in life.
Perhaps no-one should be allowed to have children, without first passing a test to establish parental competence.

But how would that be enforced in a modern liberal world?
Sterilisation at 12, work, pay taxes, sit a test and swear an Oath.
From my mate a hardcore Labour supporter
 
Which makes a nonsense of trying to assimilate those with 'difficulties'.
It does, but that’s how it is. I’ve had a class of 20, 17 of whom had Special Educational Needs (SEN, now SEND to include disabilities), with rarely any serious problems, whereas a class of 12 smart kids with one fat oaf who’s determined to screw it up for the rest is a different ball game. This is where you use alternative provision which usually ties up a member of support staff who could be much better employed elsewhere.
The ability to quickly remove these scrotes would benefit everyone and set an example to the wannabees, but sadly, their ‘rights’ (and the financial penalties) overwrite everyone else’s and they’re usually destined to wander the corridors until they can be sent on ‘study leave’ In Yr 11.
On a positive note, these little darlings are now being ‘home schooled’, the thought of which brings great joy to many.
 
Frankly, I don't see that there shouldn't be an element of just desserts - if you hit someone, accept that they may hit back and you may lose. But that's different from immunity from prosecution.
Yes it is.

It's a nonsense in any case that parents should have to be asked to agree - the school has rules and if those are broken then the school should have the right of sanction. It really isn't rocket science.
You're preaching to the choir here :) As I've said, schools have the tools to enforce behaviour management already, it just requires a bit of backbone to have them used and the rules enforced.

Put it to the vote. I bet that the result would be far more conclusive than 52:48.
A vote where? Bearing in mind at least 3 people on here seem to believe smacking children is mandatory to bring up a decent child I think the response on here would be around 90% in favour. According to a link stacker put up earlier 80% of teachers in a survey were against the idea. A national referendum? No idea.
 
I thought you were in favour of harsher punishments.
I am, but a belt on the arse, doesnt have a lifetime of repercussions, especially for people (children) who dont fully understand what the future holds. Banging up a child in a secure unit wont help them.


That's also not what I said. What I suggested was actually following current sanction policy but enforcing it rigidly. If the child in question is repeatedly being excluded then the next stop should be a PRU. If, as you asked, they refuse to behave in a PRU then a YOI is a possible next step. That would require some pretty poor behaviour choices to get to that level.
You are talking about putting a child in what is effectively a prison, because they are naughty. Bunking off, being a distraction, swearing, smoking and generally being a little **** are not really things that anyone should be in a YOI for.


That already happens, the difference is in the current system they also drag others down with them.
Great, so write off the little ******* while they are in primary school, condemn them to a life of hardship and undoubtedly to have children who will be the same.

Possibly. Not very likely but possibly. The same way that introducing corporal punishment into that type of school might lead to mass absenteeism (more than usual anyway) as kids decide they'd rather bunk off than get a smacked arse.
Why would it not be likely? Some schools are rough as ****, a PRU might scare a middle class kid who would have to rub shoulders with the pond life, it wont bother someone from a rough estate.
Did kids bunk off before to avoid a smacked arse?
 

ExREME..TECH

On ROPS
On ROPs
It does, but that’s how it is. I’ve had a class of 20, 17 of whom had Special Educational Needs (SEN, now SEND to include disabilities), with rarely any serious problems, whereas a class of 12 smart kids with one fat oaf who’s determined to screw it up for the rest is a different ball game. This is where you use alternative provision which usually ties up a member of support staff who could be much better employed elsewhere.
The ability to quickly remove these scrotes would benefit everyone and set an example to the wannabees, but sadly, their ‘rights’ (and the financial penalties) overwrite everyone else’s and they’re usually destined to wander the corridors until they can be sent on ‘study leave’ In Yr 11.
On a positive note, these little darlings are now being ‘home schooled’, the thought of which brings great joy to many.
Grammar Schools for the working class, exams change every year so can not be taught
 
My mate is a teacher to 5/6 year olds, she said 40-60% percent when they come to here are still wearing nappies. The parent, thinks its the teaching assistant to toilet train them.
Not parents
Then the child should be refused schooling until their parent has discharged their duty and trained them to use the toilet, no ifs or buts.
 
I am, but a belt on the arse, doesnt have a lifetime of repercussions, especially for people (children) who dont fully understand what the future holds. Banging up a child in a secure unit wont help them.
You are talking about putting a child in what is effectively a prison, because they are naughty. Bunking off, being a distraction, swearing, smoking and generally being a little **** are not really things that anyone should be in a YOI for.
You keep jumping to the end stage and assuming all of them will end up there. The option of permanent exclusion is open to schools now but the vast majority of students never get to that stage. Of the ones that do it's around 0.2% of the school population in secondary and 0.03% in primary.

Great, so write off the little ******* while they are in primary school, condemn them to a life of hardship and undoubtedly to have children who will be the same.
Again, currently happens all the time. Again, this way the rest of the students could learn.

Why would it not be likely? Some schools are rough as ****, a PRU might scare a middle class kid who would have to rub shoulders with the pond life, it wont bother someone from a rough estate.
Did kids bunk off before to avoid a smacked arse?
No idea. Did schools before still exclude students, even when they could belt them? Did a system exist for those students that couldn't behave in a mainstream school, even one that used corporal punishment?
 
Almost everyone who actually teaches the little bastards?

Apart from all the moral and legal arguments what that approach teaches them is "If you annoy me I am allowed to hurt you". What do you think is going to happen when Johnny Fucknuts gets told off and angry? Normalising violence will only lead to the kids returning it ten-fold on staff.

This was the situation 2 years ago - Secondary school staff suffer work attacks - over 42 attacks leaving injuries on teaching staff every working day. Something tells me that teaching teenagers the correct response to a bad situation is to batter someone might not improve that statistic :rolleyes:
I wonder what the stats were like when it was still legal to beat little barstewards?
 

ExREME..TECH

On ROPS
On ROPs
Then the child should be refused schooling until their parent has discharged their duty and trained them to use the toilet, no ifs or buts.
I will tell her
 
You keep jumping to the end stage and assuming all of them will end up there. The option of permanent exclusion is open to schools now but the vast majority of students never get to that stage. Of the ones that do it's around 0.2% of the school population in secondary and 0.03% in primary.
Thats what it is at the moment, didnt you suggest making it easier to get rid of the problem children?


Again, currently happens all the time. Again, this way the rest of the students could learn.
If it happens all the time, maybe its time to change the procedure.

No idea. Did schools before still exclude students, even when they could belt them? Did a system exist for those students that couldn't behave in a mainstream school, even one that used corporal punishment?
Not sure, but I doubt there would have been must restriction on booting out the little ******* in the past. You are right that some kids can be whacked and still not learn but they are in a very small minority.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
A vote where? Bearing in mind at least 3 people on here seem to believe smacking children is mandatory to bring up a decent child I think the response on here would be around 90% in favour. According to a link stacker put up earlier 80% of teachers in a survey were against the idea. A national referendum? No idea.
Sorry - rhetorical. But pointing out the conceit and the fact that it'll never be allowed to happen. The public wants it, most parents would understand it, the teachers and educationalists are against.

Why?
 

endure

GCM
No idea. Did schools before still exclude students, even when they could belt them? Did a system exist for those students that couldn't behave in a mainstream school, even one that used corporal punishment?
I went to a state grammar school in the 60s. There were no exclusions, only detentions, plimsolls and ultimately the cane apart from Mister Gillard the 72 year old maths master who could land a piece of chalk right on your earlobe with painful results.
 
The public wants it, most parents would understand it, the teachers and educationalists are against.

Why?
The teachers and educationalists spend more time interacting with children?
 
Then the child should be refused schooling until their parent has discharged their duty and trained them to use the toilet, no ifs or buts.
The child suffers even more because its parents are spastics.
 
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