Policy Directive 16

Is a CR written soley by the sigs acceptable for an INT CORPS soldier?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not a darksider - don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
I've just spent my last 45 minutes or so perusing the aforementioned document. I was was quite interested to notice that JNCOs in the Bns will now be reported upon by their Sect Comd and Coy Comd. Maybe a bad thing, maybe not. It's a lot easier to be the best LCpl / Cpl in a Coy than it is a Bn!

But...... I was quite surprised to see that SNCOs in certain units can now have a CR written by their OC and CO, both of whom are scaleys, and end up with no INT CORPS representation in their CR. A JNCO can have a signals employing officer and OC writing a CR with again no Corps involvement.

Not that I have anything against the signals* but I was taken aback when I read this.

Please discuss.......

* On the contrary, I have everything against the twats!
 
#2
I had great and cr@p reports from both Sigs and Int over the years. I really don't think it makes much difference what the capbadge of the writer is, some people write better than others that's all. There is comprehensive guidance given for all people who are part of the reporting chain. Where I got a poor report it was down to me being a tw@t (yeah I know.....)
 
#3
Your right Warrior - it is down to who writes the thing although clearly if you are serving in a high-profile job (SRR/DHU/SF) this also makes the CR stand out even more when it is written well. In my long and slightly distinguished service I have actually found that non-Int Corps ROs actually write much better CRs - perhaps they are easier to bulls**t ??
 
#4
correct me if i'm wrong, but is this anything new? if you've a Pt 1 and Pt 2 written by outsiders, you get a Pt 3 written by a Corps Lt Col e.g. SO1 INT CORPS. or are you saying this will no longer be the case?

had this situation several times over the years and it's never done me any harm pfffffffffhhhhhhhhh :) (sorry, couldn't keep a straight face)
 
#5
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
correct me if i'm wrong, but is this anything new? if you've a Pt 1 and Pt 2 written by outsiders, you get a Pt 3 written by a Corps Lt Col e.g. SO1 INT CORPS. or are you saying this will no longer be the case?

had this situation several times over the years and it's never done me any harm pfffffffffhhhhhhhhh :) (sorry, couldn't keep a straight face)
If your Pt 1 and Pt 2 are written by 2 signals officers they are not deemed as outsiders! My (albeit limited) understanding is that this is new.
 
#6
The problem is not so much in the writing style but in that the CR may be treated in a different manner by RSigs than it would by the Int Corps CoC.

In the mid 90's I very nearly didn't get promoted to Sgt when I was at 14 Sigs as I (along with another Int Corps Cpl who we'll call 'N') had not done the EFP course due to being away for most of the previous 12 months on ops. The problem was that although the Int Corps would accept this as an excuse the RSigs would not and the RSigs sqn OC refused to write a covering letter.

It was only through 'N' ringing up the Glasgow and impersonating the Sqn OC that the situation got sorted.

Having said that, the vast majority of my CRs were written by RSigs types and they never got it wrong - they all, to a man, said I was cr@p.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#7
ShortFatBloke said:
The problem is not so much in the writing style but in that the CR may be treated in a different manner by RSigs than it would by the Int Corps CoC.
Absolutely right. In the far off salad days when I was an SO3 G2, I had to write the report for an RAOC photographer who had been promoted to Sgt a few months before his reporting date. He was a good guy and the tenor of my report was 'Sgt X was an outstanding Cpl who is developing well... blah blah blah'. This would have been absolutely standard in the Int Corps for good NCO who was clearly going places, but this guy was beside himself with grief when I showed him the draft, because in that particular trade, it operated on a dead man's shoes basis and anything remotely adverse, i.e., it didn't say: 'this man combines the photographic skills of David Bailey and Henri-Cartier-Bresson with the military skills of Rommel', and his career was fcuked. I took some advice and changed the report. Different Corps and trades have different reporting conventions, and a good report writer has to get to know them.
 
#8
cpunk said:
ShortFatBloke said:
The problem is not so much in the writing style but in that the CR may be treated in a different manner by RSigs than it would by the Int Corps CoC.
Absolutely right. In the far off salad days when I was an SO3 G2, I had to write the report for an RAOC photographer who had been promoted to Sgt a few months before his reporting date. He was a good guy and the tenor of my report was 'Sgt X was an outstanding Cpl who is developing well... blah blah blah'. This would have been absolutely standard in the Int Corps for good NCO who was clearly going places, but this guy was beside himself with grief when I showed him the draft, because in that particular trade, it operated on a dead man's shoes basis and anything remotely adverse, i.e., it didn't say: 'this man combines the photographic skills of David Bailey and Henri-Cartier-Bresson with the military skills of Rommel', and his career was fcuked. I took some advice and changed the report. Different Corps and trades have different reporting conventions, and a good report writer has to get to know them.
I agree with the above, though in the case of Corps personnel it can be somewhat easier to impress a non Int Corps RO especially if he/she is used to writing up 'cough' other capbadges. That said, if like the soldier decribed at the beginning of this thread you are in a situation were RO1 and RO2 are non-Corps then it is a good idea to identify who exactly is going to do part 3 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE on your arrival in post. If whoever you are working for doesn't have a clue as to who that should be, then identify someone yourself (preferrably an officer who you know and get on with). A spot of self-preservation never goes amiss in these circumstances!
 
#9
252_me said:
I've just spent my last 45 minutes or so perusing the aforementioned document. I was was quite interested to notice that JNCOs in the Bns will now be reported upon by their Sect Comd and Coy Comd. Maybe a bad thing, maybe not. It's a lot easier to be the best LCpl / Cpl in a Coy than it is a Bn!

But...... I was quite surprised to see that SNCOs in certain units can now have a CR written by their OC and CO, both of whom are scaleys, and end up with no INT CORPS representation in their CR. A JNCO can have a signals employing officer and OC writing a CR with again no Corps involvement.

Not that I have anything against the signals* but I was taken aback when I read this.

Please discuss.......

* On the contrary, I have everything against the twats!
Absolutely nothing new about this at all. If you are under a R Sigs OC and CO you have no Cap badge involvement on your CR. Also if you serve at JSSO then your first RO may be a Crab-type and your second a Scaley; again no cap badge involvement. Never done myself nor a number of others any harm at all. In fact the worst report I got was written by two snot hats!!
 
#10
ashford_old_school said:
252_me said:
I've just spent my last 45 minutes or so perusing the aforementioned document. I was was quite interested to notice that JNCOs in the Bns will now be reported upon by their Sect Comd and Coy Comd. Maybe a bad thing, maybe not. It's a lot easier to be the best LCpl / Cpl in a Coy than it is a Bn!

But...... I was quite surprised to see that SNCOs in certain units can now have a CR written by their OC and CO, both of whom are scaleys, and end up with no INT CORPS representation in their CR. A JNCO can have a signals employing officer and OC writing a CR with again no Corps involvement.

Not that I have anything against the signals* but I was taken aback when I read this.

Please discuss.......

* On the contrary, I have everything against the twats!
Absolutely nothing new about this at all. If you are under a R Sigs OC and CO you have no Cap badge involvement on your CR. Also if you serve at JSSO then your first RO may be a Crab-type and your second a Scaley; again no cap badge involvement. Never done myself nor a number of others any harm at all. In fact the worst report I got was written by two snot hats!!
So how does it work if you are at JSSO or somthing like that and your chain of command is crab-types do you get your CR written by said crabs?
 
#11
ashford_old_school said:
Absolutely nothing new about this at all. If you are under a R Sigs OC and CO you have no Cap badge involvement on your CR. Also if you serve at JSSO then your first RO may be a Crab-type and your second a Scaley; again no cap badge involvement. Never done myself nor a number of others any harm at all. In fact the worst report I got was written by two snot hats!!
Perhaps they got it right! ;) On a serious note I did make the point in my second post about it being my limited understanding that this was new. Sometimes I'm so glad I'm not a darksider!
 
#12
I have been overhearing my boss talikng about this quite a bit and his line was that without INT CORPS input at Pt 1, 2 or 3 then INT CORPS soldiers were being quite badly disadvantaged on promotion boards - dont know what anyone else has heard - doesnt bother me at the moment :)
 
#13
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
correct me if i'm wrong, but is this anything new? if you've a Pt 1 and Pt 2 written by outsiders, you get a Pt 3 written by a Corps Lt Col e.g. SO1 INT CORPS. or are you saying this will no longer be the case?
Just had mine written by one of my Corps Lt Col, so maybe its just in the pipeline for you to go have an interview ?
 
#14
evilgenius said:
ashford_old_school said:
252_me said:
I've just spent my last 45 minutes or so perusing the aforementioned document. I was was quite interested to notice that JNCOs in the Bns will now be reported upon by their Sect Comd and Coy Comd. Maybe a bad thing, maybe not. It's a lot easier to be the best LCpl / Cpl in a Coy than it is a Bn!

But...... I was quite surprised to see that SNCOs in certain units can now have a CR written by their OC and CO, both of whom are scaleys, and end up with no INT CORPS representation in their CR. A JNCO can have a signals employing officer and OC writing a CR with again no Corps involvement.

Not that I have anything against the signals* but I was taken aback when I read this.

Please discuss.......

* On the contrary, I have everything against the twats!
Absolutely nothing new about this at all. If you are under a R Sigs OC and CO you have no Cap badge involvement on your CR. Also if you serve at JSSO then your first RO may be a Crab-type and your second a Scaley; again no cap badge involvement. Never done myself nor a number of others any harm at all. In fact the worst report I got was written by two snot hats!!
So how does it work if you are at JSSO or somthing like that and your chain of command is crab-types do you get your CR written by said crabs?
I might be thick but I thought I explained that?
 
#15
ashford_old_school said:
252_me said:
I've just spent my last 45 minutes or so perusing the aforementioned document. I was was quite interested to notice that JNCOs in the Bns will now be reported upon by their Sect Comd and Coy Comd. Maybe a bad thing, maybe not. It's a lot easier to be the best LCpl / Cpl in a Coy than it is a Bn!

But...... I was quite surprised to see that SNCOs in certain units can now have a CR written by their OC and CO, both of whom are scaleys, and end up with no INT CORPS representation in their CR. A JNCO can have a signals employing officer and OC writing a CR with again no Corps involvement.

Not that I have anything against the signals* but I was taken aback when I read this.

Please discuss.......

* On the contrary, I have everything against the twats!
Absolutely nothing new about this at all. If you are under a R Sigs OC and CO you have no Cap badge involvement on your CR. Also if you serve at JSSO then your first RO may be a Crab-type and your second a Scaley; again no cap badge involvement. Never done myself nor a number of others any harm at all. In fact the worst report I got was written by two snot hats!!
i find that incredible. i have at various times had Pt 1 & Pt 2 ROs who were an RAF Group Captain, civvie HIO, a Cavalry Maj, Royal Engineers Capts & Lt Cols, AAC Majs & Lt Cols... always always always had a Part 3 written by an INT CORPS Lt Col.


not that the board ever turn the page and read the damn things :)
 
#16
I've been in the same boat as you CR. In NI, I had a CR written up by a Para and a Fusilier but with Part 3 written by an INT CORPS officer.

What I do question however is what benefit a man who has never even heard of me, never mind met me, can add in a part 3 by saying "I agree with parts 1 and 2."

I'm not sure what the solution is as clearly there are going to be those units where there are no INT COPRS ROs in the soldier's CoC and thus he will be seriously disadvantaged when it comes to the board. And before anyone argues - yes, he WILL be disadvantaged no matter what anyone says of the "never did me any harm" ilk. That's fact and it's pretty obvious too. I really don't think having a part 3 really adds anything to the report whatsoever though - any other suggestions?
 
#17
Davros_the_Dalek said:
I've been in the same boat as you CR. In NI, I had a CR written up by a Para and a Fusilier but with Part 3 written by an INT CORPS officer.

What I do question however is what benefit a man who has never even heard of me, never mind met me, can add in a part 3 by saying "I agree with parts 1 and 2."

I'm not sure what the solution is as clearly there are going to be those units where there are no INT COPRS ROs in the soldier's CoC and thus he will be seriously disadvantaged when it comes to the board. And before anyone argues - yes, he WILL be disadvantaged no matter what anyone says of the "never did me any harm" ilk. That's fact and it's pretty obvious too. I really don't think having a part 3 really adds anything to the report whatsoever though - any other suggestions?
Do you have inside knowledge that it does happen as that is a pretty weighty accusation to level. Last time I chatted with ex-board members, it was seen as a positive advantage if you managed to impress a different cap-badged CoC. Better toi have the one O grade from a different Cap-badged unit that be one of 8 O grades from your Int CoC.

And to answer CRs incredulity; you need to get out and about around the Corps more. Preferably on foot if my spies from the last OPMI managers course are correct!
 
#18
I am not saying that having one non INT COPRS RO saying you're an O grade is bad, as long as you still have someone form the Coprs to back it up. It's pretty well known that people think less of other units gradings as far as I am aware. For example, three SNCOs are boarded. All of them have an O grade and have been written up equally as well. One has Pt1 and Pt2 written by two RAF officers. Number 2 has a Pt1 written by a RAF officer and backed up in Pt2 by an INT CORPS Major. Number three has both Pt1 and Pt 2 written by INT CORPS officers. There's one slot for promotion; who do you take?
Personally I'd waver between the second and third person. The second has merit in that another service thinks he's great too and also has the backing of his own corps. The third is good all the way. To be honest I'd look at the first and think, well what do two RAF officers know about what it takes to be promoted in the Int Corps. Now do forgive me as I realise that this is a very bad attitude to take, but I firmly believe that it is one that when it comes to promotion time, it is one that we have.
 
#19
The whole point of the Pt3 is to make sure you have backing from your own Corps, so none of the he's not one of us, dont give him/her a limited space of O / A grade. And so the Backing Corps member will assess you as well (or should) to see what you deserve.
 
#20
Davros_the_Dalek said:
I am not saying that having one non INT COPRS RO saying you're an O grade is bad, as long as you still have someone form the Coprs to back it up. It's pretty well known that people think less of other units gradings as far as I am aware. For example, three SNCOs are boarded. All of them have an O grade and have been written up equally as well. One has Pt1 and Pt2 written by two RAF officers. Number 2 has a Pt1 written by a RAF officer and backed up in Pt2 by an INT CORPS Major. Number three has both Pt1 and Pt 2 written by INT CORPS officers. There's one slot for promotion; who do you take?
Personally I'd waver between the second and third person. The second has merit in that another service thinks he's great too and also has the backing of his own corps. The third is good all the way. To be honest I'd look at the first and think, well what do two RAF officers know about what it takes to be promoted in the Int Corps. Now do forgive me as I realise that this is a very bad attitude to take, but I firmly believe that it is one that when it comes to promotion time, it is one that we have.
Davros,

Firstly - Everyone on a promotion board is an O or an A. The Corps has been overgrading for years. The grade therefore is irrelevant.

Secondly - Pretty well known by whom? Some mate of a mate who once heard from his mate that....... Rumours of what happens on a board will only be dispelled once you have sat upon one.

Thirdly - One slot for promotion, who do you take? The one most deserving of course.

Just for your own education there are a number of things (not exhaustive by any means) that will help you stand out on a promotion board:

Your Spec Quals.

Your Part 2 - If your part 2 states that you are the best X of 50 Xs in the unit/battalion and that you are acting as/have been tested at the next higher rank; then you stand a good chance of promoting. If it merely states you are doing an excellent job (as are so many others), your chances are slim.

Just to reiterate that when it comes to the board, your grade and tick boxes are irrelevant.
 

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