Police & Working time Directive

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by PISX_STAINED_PANTS, Feb 10, 2010.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Could anyone shed any light on where the Police (force) stand in relation to the Working time Directive. We are currently being told that we need to change our shift pattern from seven nights to two nights as the new directive says this has to happen.

    If this is the case then so be it. However being the cynical sod that i am and having been told so many un truths through out my 20+ yrs i am loathe to believe what i told. I have tried to find out myself but just get bogged down.
    Thanks for any help.
  2. Dont know about the working time directive but I only work two nights in a row now.... and am always knackered because my sleep pattern doesn't adjust.

  3. Most places now seem to work a 2/2/2 system of earlies lates and nights. Reckoned to be healthier than the good old fashioned 7 straight nights. Not sure how it fits into the Working Time Directive, but it must have been OK'd somewhere along the line.

    I spent 7 years on 12 hour shifts, 2 days, 2 nights, 4 RD. Best shift pattern in the world once you got used to it. Everyone on the unit had to agree to it, but it worked well.
    For some reason the head shed didn't like it, even though overtime was practically non-existent and short term sickness went through the floor.
  4. I didn't think it's the number of nights - the directive limits the night shift to 8 hours!

    But there are exceptions - to quote:

    "where your employee is engaged in security and surveillance activities requiring permanent presence in order to protect property and persons"

    I would say that would certainly fit your average beat bobby.
  5. also the limits are averages - the NHS is still doing 12 hour nights in Nursing /Madwifery, Ambulance and Medical staff groups and given how closely hours etc are watched in the NHS

    what however is illegal is trumpton style 14 hour nights even if they are allowed to sleep as it's sleeping at the place of work ...
  6. Thanks to all so far.

    The problem we have is that we are being told we have to change from our current shift pattern because what we are doing is illegal under the Working time Directive in that we can't do 7 nights in a row.

    However the senior managers, HR etc will not or cannot show us the relevant page, paragraph and sentance where it says this.
    I will go and see the Federation to see what they can do.
  7. We've moved shifts to the 2/2/2 system with the last 2 nights being only 8 hours now and thanks to this little directive, we 'owe' the job hours, meaning we get to give up a rest day every 10 weeks to attend a training day (sorry, I mean sat in lecture theatre sucking eggs for a few hours before doing one). Still looking for the regs, never found one, never seen one. I think it was a duty rumour started on a shift night out, that's snowballed and in this day and age when none of the SMT have the nerve to put their head above the parapet and question anything, we're stuck with it.................it's in the regs!
  8. Whilst Euro Working Time Regs (EWR) do apply to the Police, the total number of hours worked per week can be averaged over 20 weeks to allow for longer shifts and fit in with the 2/2/2

    Nightshifts can be longer than eight hours, but EWR means that Employers must offer night workers health screning every year (normally an email invite to see Occ Health)

    The EWR actually states one day off in 7, hence the misconception that 7 nights is not allowed. There is, however, a caveat that allows individuals to opt out of certain aspects, this being one of them.

    Hampshire CID have opted out and work 7 on, 2 off with a long weekend every three weeks.

    Devon & Cornwall work a split nights week OTTOWA shift pattern, with two blocks of nights, 1 x 3 and 1 x 4.

    Ottowa was an excellent shift pattern which allowed the body to adjust to nights then have a break afterwards but was binned as Senior Officers did not like Officers having 6 rest days in a row.

    The 2/2/2 system is atrocious for work as the pattern does not allow for clearing of workload, and more jobs pile on during the days and lates, then the Officers have 2 nights and 4 rest days when they can't do anything and then start collecting more on their return.

    The 2/2/2 means that Officers are away from dealing with their outstanding work for 60% of the time.

    Even the inttroduction of the 2/2/2 was not good enough for Senior Officers and now various Forces have adjusted some shifts to 8 hrs to allow for training days which, strangely enough, after a few months turn into Operational days which can be reallocated to peak times (what a surpirse).

    The 2 days, 2 nights 4 off with 12hr shifts is allowed under EWR but you have a default start position of only working 6mths of the year before taking Annual Leave so it is liked even less than the others.

    The bottom line is 40hrs a week is 40 hours a week, no matter how you spread it out. Trouble is, Senior Police Officers and HR Depts seem intent on getting a quart out of a pint pot.

    Just my ten penneth.
  9. Thanks MittMayo, will print that off and go armed with it to the Federation.

    We work a 5 week shift pattern with the 6 days off afterwards. We obviously all love it and don't want to change. However due to "re-structure" ie cut backs, the managers now realise that they dont have enough staff on the groups and it seems are hiding behind the Working time Directive legislation to impose shift changes.
  10. Sounds like you are working OTTOWA

    Devon & Cornwall came up with the best compromise, but not as good as Ottowa
  11. As far as i am aware the UK still has an "opt out" with regard to the European working time directive which allows employers to play fast and loose with the rules if they should so choose.

    Standing by for counter battery fire.
  12. I wouldn't. Does it say anything about work "requiring razzing around in a jam-sandwich avoiding contact with the public and refusing to attend home invasions"?
  13. Thanks Hogg, very informative.