Police taught how to spot drunks.

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by dingerr, Dec 2, 2007.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Whats a drunk :?

    clicky

    Grandmother, eggs and sucking spring to mind along with more wasting of Police funds that they are always whinging they havent got.
     
  2. I agree, it's a bit daft expecting us to require instruction on spotting a drunk. However the 'training material' consists of a very breif hand-out style document listing common inidicators of drunkness, which isn't going to be a mega drama for the average bobby to absorb (as mentioned above i doubt many will really need it!).

    Furthermore, the crux of the issue is that prosecutions and even arrests for this type of offence (serving someone whilst intoxicated) are rare. I think this is mainly due to the problematic nature of prooving that the bar-person has reasonable grounds for believing that the customer concerned is drunk. Also expecting an unqualified bar person to establish drunkeness and to understand what actually constitues drunkeness could cause CPS some headaches. The result, rightly or wrongly, is that officers rarely target this offence proactively.

    "The powers that be" have obviously decided that alcohol related crime is a priority and have therefore decided to tackle the problem at the perceived root cause - the pub. They have publsihed this concise guide to give some clarity to officers regarding not what they should expect to see from a drunk person, but what behaviour the government considers reasonable for a bar-person to consider as drunkern, when displayed by a customer.

    I am in no way agreeing with this action or pursuing pub staff, I simply took the chance to venture my opinions of how I percieve the reasoning behind this publication / campaign.
     
  3. "His eyes were glazed, his gait was unsteady, he smelt strongly of alcoholic liquor. He was drunk"

    What more do they need to know? :)
     
  4. It looks as though the guide has had a lot of thought and been some time in preparation.

    "Fumbling for cigarettes.." While in a pub?

    If, as I expect, many smokers will boycott the pub in favour of a few beers and a fag in the warmth of home, the "thousands of officers working undercover during the festive season to catch pub workers serving booze to customers who have already had too much" will represent a large proportion of some pubs' clientele.

    Would it be appropriate to produce a guide to spotting an undercover policeman?

    The bloke with the shifty eyes, big feet, drinking lemonade and wearing a stab-proof vest seems a likely candidate. Especially if he's constantly tilting his head towards his radio microphone and arrived in a black Ford Zodiac.
     
  5. You missed out '' in my opinion sir that man was drunk''!
     
  6. I agree entirely.

    However, if a police officer were to take that argument to a CPS lawyer or to a magistrates court, the following defence arguments are likely to be raised:

    "Proove that the room conditions were adequate for the bar person to establish eye contact, proove that the environment and subjects behaviour were condusive to establishing eye contact" If not it could be argued that the bar person could not deem drunkeness through "glazed eyes".

    Proove that the bar person was able to witness a display of an "unsteady gait" from the customer. If the bar person says that they did not witness the person approach the bar and simply served them when they were stood against it, then this line of prosecution would again be brought into reasonable doubt. Consider loud dance music, poor lighting, bustling crowds etc.

    The defence would argue that a smell of intoxicating liquor is very hard to detect on an persons breath if you encounter them whilst stood behind the bar of a busy pub whilst surrounded by containers of such liquor and a hundreds of other drinkers.

    I'm clearly playing devils advocate, and doing a good impression of a member of the Criminal Protection Service (C.P.S), however that is the reality of the situation.

    As mentioned previously, please don't take this to mean I support the proposed action, it's just a hard bit of legislation to enforce.
     
  7. Of course Bar workers in pubs and clubs are going to serve drunk people, if they don't sell booze how are they supposed to make any money?
     
  8. Yer wot?! I would imagine that barstaff see drunks far more frequently than any other group.

    Anyway, to paraphrase a great philosopher, drunken is as drunken does. If they don't look or act drunk, there's no reason to consider them as drunk - conversely, if they're falling about slurring their words, there's at least reasonable cause to suspect they're drunk.
     
  9. If they do not do as they are told when the police tell them, they are either drunk or need arresting anyway. On the spot fines that go up exponentially should be applied, hit a certain amount and 1 day nick, then add on infinitum.
     
  10. It was always good enough for Military Summary Proceedings. It really does stink of Jobsworthism. It is quite easy to prove that someone is drunk. It is also easy to make a mistake.

    Arresting people for Drunkenness is so passe these days. Public Order is a much more entertaining route for the average Civvy Copper and - if my mates are to be believed it is getting more popular in the Military as well.
     
  11. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    So, friday night when l'm doing the two step back from the pub, face buried in a mixed kebab, & a member of the psni's finest ask's me if l'm drunk, he has to prove it?
     
  12. gentlemen please, a little calm please. The police need to be able to identify drunks to allow them to do the most important part of their job. Sitting in their squad car avoiding the now identified drunks. Afterall, its cold out there.
     
  13. The Met have a special Christmas drunk spotting unit.
    I have managed to secure a photo from the recognition manual.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Ah, the old favourite, never ceases to amaze that magistrates still believe it. You might has well have a rubber stamp for your PNB with it on there. :wink:

    My favoured method of spotting a proper drunk is if he/she is trying to send a text message with one eye closed whilst rocking back and fore.

    I imagine that this guide to p!ssheads is probably required due to the fact that the current recruitment process seems to lean in favour of the younger customer service orientated type who has no real experience of drunkenness or the behaviour of drunks. When asked during officer safety training, most admitted never being involved in a fight so therefore, with the exception of the odd one or two who partake in contact sports, most have never had to deal with a confrontation before.
     
  15. I used to see it so often in your statements I thought you had one :p