• ARRSE have partnered with Armadillo Merino to bring you an ARRSE exclusive, generous discount offer on their full price range.
    To keep you warm with the best of Merino gear, visit www.armadillomerino.co.uk and use the code: NEWARRSE40 at the checkout to get 40% off!
    This superb deal has been generously offered to us by Armadillo Merino and is valid until midnight on the the 28th of February.

Police stopping 4x4s in search of "drunk shooters"

#1
Can anybody confirm this? If true absolute disgrace.

"Several readers have told me in recent days of police in the West Country stopping 4x4s at dusk in case there are people in them with shotguns in the boot, after a day's shooting, who might possibly be over the alcohol limit, and therefore drunk in charge of a firearm (this includes passengers, by the way). No drunk passenger is going to kill anyone: meanwhile, guns are bought and sold freely in pubs by criminals without police interference. Is it any wonder the middle classes now despise Mr Plod so? "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...ordon-Browns-behaviour-is-simply-immoral.html
 
#2
Police randomly stop drivers at this time of year as its common for people to have one too many drinks after work in the name of the christmas spirit. The same logic doesnt apply to a couple of drinks after a shoot? The plod cant tell if its the driver or passenger thats had a few, its merely adding a new idea relevant to that area onto already accepted practice.

Using the same logic in the article is not fair to search neds for knives in areas rife with stabbings? Yes the searching of 4x4s is aimed at a minority, but its part of an ongoing practice with no proof its diverting resources.
 
#3
Please read the statement.

"police in the West Country stopping 4x4s at dusk in case there are people in them with shotguns"

Well of course people leaving shoots have fcuking shotguns.

AND HAVE COMMITTED NO OFFENCE.

How many more...................oh fcuk I've wahed myself.
 
#4
In Yorkshire police stop 4x4s to check if any dead game on board has been shot with lead,rather than steel pellets.They take any 'suspicious' birds to a lab to check and will then prosecute offenders.
 
#5
muhandis89 said:
In Yorkshire police stop 4x4s to check if any dead game on board has been shot with lead,rather than steel pellets.They take any 'suspicious' birds to a lab to check and will then prosecute offenders.
[Anti-WAH cloak]
Since when has it been an offence to shoot 'game' with lead shot? Are you confusing 'Game', with 'Wild Foul' shot over the foreshore?

But more to the point, you just made the whole thing up, didn't you...
[Anti-WAH cloak/]

Back on thread, I saw this doing the rounds early December... e-mail quoted below
Dear All,
You may have heard about this already but I thought I would email you all anyway as you might like to pass this warning on to shooting clients.

A friend of mine was shooting in Devon last week and he and one of his fellow guns were stopped on the A361 at about 5pm and BOTH were breathalysed on the grounds that even the passenger might be committing an offence if he was shown to be over the limit in charge of shot guns. Both were clear and proceeded on their way.

My friend contacted the BASC to find out what the situation would be had his passenger been over the limit. He was told by the BASC that, even if you are over the limit, if your shot guns are “secure” in a car being driven by someone else and you are not being “a danger to the public” you are not committing an offence and the police should not breathalyse a passenger without considerable cause.

My friend is in the investigations business and spoke to a police contact who looked into the incident. Apparently the police are targeting 4 x 4 vehicles throughout the country but especially in shooting areas and particularly if they are muddy and it is after lunch.

You should warn your clients and friends to be particularly careful as it is not only their driving licences that are at risk. Their shot guns can be confiscated and their permits can also be revoked. Traffic police can (and are) asking if shot guns or rifles are being carried and if so, people are being asked to show their permits. If they do not have them, the shot guns can (often are) be confiscated then and there.

We are under enough pressure without further ammunition (forgive the pun) being handed to the antis. Can you see the headline? DRUNK WITH A GUN.

Please make sure that everyone you know is aware of what is happening and urge them to be abstemious when out shooting. Last year I had to tell the guest of a gun on my shoot that I would not let him shoot after lunch as he had climbed too far down the neck of a claret bottle - and awkward and potentially embarrassing incident but one which had to be dealt with.

I will be circulating this to all my shooting contacts. You may feel inclined to do the same.
With best wishes
Offical verdict: Spoof - See BASC Press release here >>clicky<<
 
#6
"Several readers have told me in recent days of police..........."

Nice to see that hypocrisy in the Press extends to the so-called "quality" papers.

If anyone else, especially the police, were to make such unsubstantiated claims there'd be howls of outrage (and rightly so).

Simon Heffer needs to learn that with opportunity comes responsibility.
 
#7
I've also heard that if you suck on a penny it will fool the breath test kit, so keep a pocket full of change and you'll be fine. :roll:
 
#8
My point precisely!

LEFTY478 said:
muhandis89 said:
In Yorkshire police stop 4x4s to check if any dead game on board has been shot with lead,rather than steel pellets.They take any 'suspicious' birds to a lab to check and will then prosecute offenders.
[Anti-WAH cloak]
Since when has it been an offence to shoot 'game' with lead shot? Are you confusing 'Game', with 'Wild Foul' shot over the foreshore?

But more to the point, you just made the whole thing up, didn't you...
[Anti-WAH cloak/]

Back on thread, I saw this doing the rounds early December... e-mail quoted below
Dear All,
You may have heard about this already but I thought I would email you all anyway as you might like to pass this warning on to shooting clients.

A friend of mine was shooting in Devon last week and he and one of his fellow guns were stopped on the A361 at about 5pm and BOTH were breathalysed on the grounds that even the passenger might be committing an offence if he was shown to be over the limit in charge of shot guns. Both were clear and proceeded on their way.

My friend contacted the BASC to find out what the situation would be had his passenger been over the limit. He was told by the BASC that, even if you are over the limit, if your shot guns are “secure” in a car being driven by someone else and you are not being “a danger to the public” you are not committing an offence and the police should not breathalyse a passenger without considerable cause.

My friend is in the investigations business and spoke to a police contact who looked into the incident. Apparently the police are targeting 4 x 4 vehicles throughout the country but especially in shooting areas and particularly if they are muddy and it is after lunch.

You should warn your clients and friends to be particularly careful as it is not only their driving licences that are at risk. Their shot guns can be confiscated and their permits can also be revoked. Traffic police can (and are) asking if shot guns or rifles are being carried and if so, people are being asked to show their permits. If they do not have them, the shot guns can (often are) be confiscated then and there.

We are under enough pressure without further ammunition (forgive the pun) being handed to the antis. Can you see the headline? DRUNK WITH A GUN.

Please make sure that everyone you know is aware of what is happening and urge them to be abstemious when out shooting. Last year I had to tell the guest of a gun on my shoot that I would not let him shoot after lunch as he had climbed too far down the neck of a claret bottle - and awkward and potentially embarrassing incident but one which had to be dealt with.

I will be circulating this to all my shooting contacts. You may feel inclined to do the same.
With best wishes
Offical verdict: Spoof - See BASC Press release here >>clicky<<
 
#9
Quite apart from all the above, since when is "over the drink-drive limit" the same as "drunk"? You can be drunk in charge of a push-bike, or of a baby, but AFAIK the test is not a measurement on a breathalyser, it's a police officer's opinion on whether you are actually *drunk* - you know, "the Leith police dismisseth us", walking a line, that sort of thing. Is the test for drunk in charge of a shotgun any different?
 
#10
My son-in-law confirms that 'orders from above' have meant that stopping 4 x 4s in and around shoots is now 'normal' in his area. He was evasive when I asked what reasons for stopping the vehicles were. Evasive not because he did not want to tell me, but because he didn't bloody well know!

This is part of the 'War that Dare Not Speak Its Name' - the CLASS WAR.

Floreat the politics of Envy, Spite and Malice.
 
#11
Blogg said:
No drunk passenger is going to kill anyone
Tell you what - If any of them do will you be happy to go to court and set the record straight :roll:


: meanwhile, guns are bought and sold freely in pubs by criminals without police interference. Is it any wonder the middle classes now despise Mr Plod so? "
Utter Utter Sh1te.

Look at all the arrests surounding the Rhys Jones Shooting for examples of Police interference on this subject.

That is just one fairly small example of Police is one area, of a force area tackling gun crime.

What is your problem anyway? Do you believe that people should be allowed to Drink and then transport firearms by road if they have a certificate? People who are responsible and who have the correct documentation have nothing to fear. People like a bloke in an office where I work who go shooting every other weekend without incident.
 
B

BambiBasher

Guest
#12
Closet_Jibber said:
People who [...] have the correct documentation have nothing to fear.
I'm not aware that the law requires a person to carry their certificate with them at all times. What happens when waiting for a variation or a reprint to come through? The Devon and Cornwall Firearms Dept were very clear to me that there is no requirement to carry a Certificate - a very good way to lose one or get it destroyed when caught in rain or slipping into a bog etc.

Indeed, an ordinary copper has no right whatsoever to confiscate firearms - apart from anything else, the officer would be in possession of an unlicensed firearm. Only firearms officers and civies working in the firearms dept (at managerial level) may take possession of firearms apart from in the direst emergency.
 
#13
Closet_Jibber said:
That is just one fairly small example of Police is one area, of a force area tackling gun crime.

What is your problem anyway? Do you believe that people should be allowed to Drink and then transport firearms by road if they have a certificate? People who are responsible and who have the correct documentation have nothing to fear. People like a bloke in an office where I work who go shooting every other weekend without incident.
If teh shooter has a drink AFTER the event, and the weapons are stored in the back of a car that has a SOBER driver. I have no problem what so ever with a shooter be intoxicated.

I DO have a problem with the police breathtesting passengers of a vehicle.

Does your mate in the office NEVER, EVER drink whilst he has weapons in his house, no matter how secure? He is after all "in charge" of his weapons, and lock up 24/365.

The stopping and breathlysing of a passenger in a vehilce who has a (most likely) unloaded and broken gun is exactly the same as a copper rocking up to your house whilst you have a party in full flow. Breathalysing you and telling you that seeing as your car is on the drive and your keys are in your jacket pocket he is going to seize your car and do your for being drunk in charge of a motorvehicle.

Or is that acceptable?
 
#14
Police have no legal basis to demand a breathtest from a passenger-unless they believe he has been driving. Breathtest devices are for drivers, approved under RTA88 and subsequents acts. Unless someone can enlighten me with other legislation, if the police ask you for a breath sample as a passenger, politely invite them to go away!
 
#15
chocolate_frog said:
Closet_Jibber said:
That is just one fairly small example of Police is one area, of a force area tackling gun crime.

What is your problem anyway? Do you believe that people should be allowed to Drink and then transport firearms by road if they have a certificate? People who are responsible and who have the correct documentation have nothing to fear. People like a bloke in an office where I work who go shooting every other weekend without incident.
If teh shooter has a drink AFTER the event, and the weapons are stored in the back of a car that has a SOBER driver. I have no problem what so ever with a shooter be intoxicated.

I DO have a problem with the police breathtesting passengers of a vehicle.

Does your mate in the office NEVER, EVER drink whilst he has weapons in his house, no matter how secure? He is after all "in charge" of his weapons, and lock up 24/365.

The stopping and breathlysing of a passenger in a vehilce who has a (most likely) unloaded and broken gun is exactly the same as a copper rocking up to your house whilst you have a party in full flow. Breathalysing you and telling you that seeing as your car is on the drive and your keys are in your jacket pocket he is going to seize your car and do your for being drunk in charge of a motorvehicle.

Or is that acceptable?
Apart from the seizing bit what you have just said is legally possible
 
#17
Northern Monkey said:
No it isn't. Mere possession of the keys would not satisfy 'drunk in charge'
If you are sitting there now with your car keys in your pocket, and your car is physically able to be driven, then you are indeed in charge of your vehicle.

So if you are above the prescribed limit, then you are also guilty of the offence of being drunk in charge.

The vehicle does not have to be in motion, nor do you have to be sitting at the wheel.
 
#18
I agree the vehicle neither has to be in motion or you sat in the driving seat-I have not suggested that.

The assertion deals with someone holding a party at his house and being in possession of his car keys. This would never result in the real world in an arrest. If you can demonstrate your assertion with caselaw I will bow to your better knowledge.
 

Latest Threads

New Posts