Police selection, training and operations: can all police officers use force effectively?

My dad used to speak in awe of the big Hielan bobbies-------He was not in a razor gang.
As a kid in Glasgow early fifties you would cross the street to avoid the local "friendly" polis, a scelp was guaranteed wether you had done some thing or not.
 
If that's true and I have absolutely no reason to doubt you, then come next morning she should have been sacked as not fit for purpose.
I don't blame her, who the hell wants to go after a suspect with an axe/blade/blunt weapon when only equipped with a taser. I would rather have a 12 gauge and a 1911 to be quite honest.....
 
When The Police were branded as institutionally racist, sexist, homophobic, ageist and any other ism you care to mention, politicians forced Chiefs to start recruiting what they called a workforce that was representative of society.

That included every shape and size and every attitude that was willing to apply. This was facilitated by lowering height and weight to height ratios along with fitness standards. I doubt the police wanted to do this but were forced to by politicians and media outlets with an agenda.

Couple that with a 25% cut to funding and the continuous pernicious and unnecessary attacks on policing by May and we find ourselves where we are.
I was considering leaving the mob at my 12 year point, on leave in Brum' I called into the police HQ in Lloyd house and enquired about joining up, "what height are you" says officer in the recruiting enquiry office, "5'9" says I, Don't waste your time mate, minimum is 5' 10 " ok back to sign for another 10 years in the green, god knows how many candidates were lost prior to the rules being changed.
 
I don’t know the people involved or the circs so difficult to say, although old, I have only been a cop for nearly 12 years.

There were no mythical cops in the past, just pretty much the same as nowadays. The scrutiny of police and the fashion for crucifying cops in the press has meant that the propensity to go in hard or aggressively is not there. However the article states that they attended to assist the male and he went from totally reasonable to extremely violent, so not really giving them any reason to be initially worried.

That might not fit your view of some wonder age of cops all being ex Guardsmen who could overpower people with their voice and shadow alone.
Well that may be the case, but this was the very public face of our city's police force back in the day. The message was very clear - don't mess with us.
 

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This story from today seems relevant to this thread, there seems to be a lot of calls for the officer to lose his job over it.
Police officer strikes girl, 14, in the face during violent street arrest

The 14 year old is described as a child when it comes to being slapped, but it seems it's ok for her to scratch and bite officers when they try to arrest her.
My worst direct assault [as opposed to the side effects of arresting an uncooperative person] was at the hands of a 15 yo female. I was punched, kneed and kicked - including in the spuds, and that was after she had the cuffs on.
 
My worst direct assault [as opposed to the side effects of arresting an uncooperative person] was at the hands of a 15 yo female. I was punched, kneed and kicked - including in the spuds, and that was after she had the cuffs on.
About 10 years ago, a couple of dozen teenagers and their girlfriends decided to settle their differences in my work's car park. Normally, I would have 'phoned the police, grabbed a bag of Revels and settled back to enjoy the show. But one of the girls ended up on the ground while six other did their best to kick her head like they were converting a Try. Their boyfriends were wind-milling around and shouting a lot, but not doing much serious damage to each other.

(I particularly enjoyed watching one genius hitting his opponent over the head with a plastic bottle :) )

But the girls, who couldn't have been more than 16, were out for blood. I genuinely thought they were going to kill the lassie on the ground; another teenage girl had been killed in exactly the same circumstances a few week earlier. So against my better judgement about getting involved, I waded through the crowd, dragged her out of the kicking circle and got her into the relative safety of the store.

She'd been attacked for less than two minutes, but her face was covered in blood. Her hair had been ripped out in clumps and parts of her scalp was showing.

The, "Weaker Sex" my arse!
 
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That story is horrific. In addition, it highlights one part of the problem: you can badly beat two police officers and get two years in prison. The attacker in the case quoted is likely out now.
The justice system needs to work in a joined up way and judges need to support police.
I remember watching a documentary about assaults on Scottish police officers, and the attitude of some of the judges and sheriff was that police had to accept a certain level of injury as an occupational hazard. They interviewed one career criminal who said if that the feeling among many was that if you were going to be arrested anyway, you may as well hit the coppers. Because the assault was, "free" - it didn't really add to the sentence you were going to get anyway.
 
Well that may be the case, but this was the very public face of our city's police force back in the day. The message was very clear - don't mess with us.
And what modern day investigatory skills did they have. Technology and the complexity of crime has moved on considerably. The days of clouting people and taking them home has passed.
 
I was considering leaving the mob at my 12 year point, on leave in Brum' I called into the police HQ in Lloyd house and enquired about joining up, "what height are you" says officer in the recruiting enquiry office, "5'9" says I, Don't waste your time mate, minimum is 5' 10 " ok back to sign for another 10 years in the green, god knows how many candidates were lost prior to the rules being changed.
Them's the breaks short stuff. :)
 
Happens all the time - I got in for a shift recently, went to a call and a combination of stress, fatigue, lack of sleep and the duty bug that was doing the rounds meant when I got back to the nick my body just shut down. I saw the Sgt who promptly sent me home for the rest of the cycle. I was, to use a medical term, 'Fucked'.
Pouff. Time was, 2 Brufen and some strategic Tubigrip would have sent you straight back out on the streets like the old tiger you were.
 
Serious question - if these two had been the sort of old-school coppers you used to work with (you old ****), do you think this have been much more than a fairly routine arrest? Do you think coppers are at risk because standards have been relaxed and crims know that they're likely to be softer targets than in the past?
I'm struck by the young PC's surname, If her father's who I think he is and she comes from Aldershot, matey boy who smacked her had better watch his arse on discharge.
 
The X26 Taser is obsolete and not made anymore. Only The X2 approved by The HO for Police purchase.

Met to increase number of officers with Taser electronic weapons

“Police forces are moving to a new Taser model, the X2. It costs about £1,500, and is three times more expensive than a Glock handgun”.
They generally cost around $1400 over the counter to Mr Anyman in the US. Mark up is around 300% so for a bulk order there should be around 20% to 30% discount rather than just paying whatever the UK supplier demands. I find that procurement people in the military (MoD) and police forces are pants at doing their job when it comes to negotiation.

The Force procurer should be contacting the manufacturer - not the UK supplier - and telling them how many they want and what they are willing to pay. FFS I can buy an X2 on @mazon USA for around about 800 quid - and they are still making a profit on that.

@wetsmonkey you know what I used to do and in my role at JHQ I had an annual spend of around 700K on kit, consumables and training. I never took a lunch, or backhander, and never authorised the MoD to pay full asking price, ever - because I treated the money as my own, which is what these procurement knobs, particularly public service, never do.

Just put an h at the front of the web address ==== > ttps://www.amazon.com/Taser-22029-X2-Professional-Series/dp/B01EXMKDIO
 
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And what modern day investigatory skills did they have. Technology and the complexity of crime has moved on considerably. The days of clouting people and taking them home has passed.
Perhaps there was a deterrent factor from policemen like them then?
 
And what modern day investigatory skills did they have. Technology and the complexity of crime has moved on considerably. The days of clouting people and taking them home has passed.
Yes, the complexity of crime has increased exponentially, particularly in regards to information technology and it's related fields. And yes, the old way of doing things, as exemplified by the classic Life on Mars quote,

"Right, pick someone from the We Don't Like You File and we'll pin it on them!"

has rightly been consigned to the past. But certain types of crime do not change, There will always be violent, sadistic psychopaths with no respect for the law or indeed the lives of other people. And the only way to deal with scum like that is to let Constable Hulk off his leash, stand well back until he's finished and then put the cuffs on what's left of the scroat. After you've scraped him off the pavement:)
 
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Interestingly, The Prisons Minister has said today that 20 other prisons could be failing like Birmingham and they have known about Birmingham for 13 months. In The Telegraph behind a pay wall so no link.

That’s what catastrophic underinvestment does unfortunately.

I quite like him and thought he had a bright future, given a poisoned chalice that could damage him. Lets hope that he has the gumption to call it as it is.
According to "someone" who is on his 3rd LOOoong sentence-------The only Cat A high security nick the Moosies don't yet run is Frankland.

It's been pheked for a long time.
 
I remember watching a documentary about assaults on Scottish police officers, and the attitude of some of the judges and sheriff was that police had to accept a certain level of injury as an occupational hazard. They interviewed one career criminal who said if that the feeling among many was that if you were going to be arrested anyway, you may as well hit the coppers. Because the assault was, "free" - it didn't really add to the sentence you were going to get anyway.
My boss (a few back) reckoned the same------ expect a few smacks,part of the job.

Which I have!
 
Years ago(1972/73) I was stood in a bus shelter(nice night) it was light and about 2000--2100,(the pubs in Scotland kicked out at 2200 then)
Across the road, some of the local "big boys"(ie 5-10 years older than me) came out,they went into the chippie 2 doors up.They appeared a bit boisterous,but no big deal.
Next thing,it sort of kicked off and the chippie owner must have called the police.

Scotland's finest (2) turned up in a small car/van(could squeeze 4 in the back------ don't ask!)
They got pumped -----next another car turned up,they (2) got pumped too.
Eventually 2 Ford transits turned up with the QRF and after broken shop windows,metal bins being thrown and much fisticuffs,most of the lads were subdued and bunged into the back of the transits.

A copper's lot is not a happy one.

I expect retribution was served on the miscreants behind the closed doors of the cop shop(I know!) ;)
 

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