Police selection, training and operations: can all police officers use force effectively?

They are more concerned with recruiting officers who are university graduates, rather than people with real life skills and experience.
Oi.

I combined a post-graduate degree with not entirely being wet behind the ears, thanks very much.

Thing is, I joined as a non-graduate entry watching graduates leap over me. But having taken the red pill and qualified as DC on volume crime, domestic violence and about every awful posting you could do as a junior detective; no amount of ACPO Blue Pill can convince me of the "truth" as they see it.

They who skipped the two years of rolling around in the gutter to pass probation, and then two years dealing with volume crime to qual as a DC will never know the operational reality.

Maybe that's the point?


And it simply doesn't matter how good for public relations it is to have two hot lesbian officers do the screwnicorn dance at the local pride festival; ultimately, you need someone ready to pull a slags off mopeds or kick down front doors.*

I get the job has to reflect society. But I used to laugh that on my mandatory diversity week at Hendon the gay bloke brought in to tell us about his life said in an ungaurded moment he wouldn't do my (then) job, and many of my Asian acquiantances said there parents woud disown them if they joined the job (due to perceived lack of professional status).

*Don't get me wrong, I worked with some fairly tasty lesbian officers who were absolutely as up for a fight as I was, but they were the stereotyped "hockey playing" type. We got on really well, quick dit - we were once arguing whether a sexual assault was even possible and she dropped the mike by ending the arguemnt "It's been a long time since I've had c*ck, but......" How we never got sacked talking like that I don't know.
 
I like hitting people
The Met in my case lost all the evidence---------- Video(CD) statements,photos---------Had to do it all again-----now over a year since incident------ court case has now been postponed/cancelled/ not taken place 5 times in the last 6 weeks.

Try phoning a cop shop------ NO CHANCE---- what happened to the desk officer/duty sgt?
They took their pensions and left years ago mate.

Would you like to talk to a direct entry inspector?
 
I was always brought up to have respect for the Police. I still do and if anything this thread enhanced that view, it must be hard joining what you think is an organisation to help people to find yourself under supported and seemingly at more risk from prosecution than the criminals. I never had much dealings with the Police growing up, our local policeman was a figure to be feared and respected, one of the old school Highland types who made damn sure you knew where the line was but also had a sense of when to be that guy and when a sensible compassionate head was needed. He caught me and a mate "rescuing" old bike frames from the mud of the Caledonian Canal when it was drained one year. We eventually did them up and sold them on. Technically thieving but he just grinned and said for us to be careful because if we got caught in the mud the Waterways Board would make sure we were charged. I think he knew those lads didn't want to be down there removing bike frames from the stinking mud and we were doing his fellow drinkers in the local a favour.

I had a run in with one of the new generation of politically correct PC a couple of years back. A neighbour had been shopped and subsequently convicted of Benefit Fraud. She assumed it was myself or my missus that had grassed her, that week at least, she ended up accusing loads of people. Months after this she found out it was actually one of her friends. Washing the car one day I was confronted by her being verbally abusive and spitting on me twice. She gets told to foxtrot oscar. She calls her mother who rocks up with the same attitude and also gets told to foxtrot oscar. They call the Police and spin a tale the opposite of what happened, namely they were just walking past and were accosted by the nasty man. They also accuse me of, during the week of her trial, being "verbally abusive" to her virtually every day. That week I was working in Kazhakstan slap bang in the middle of a four week trip. When I pointed this out and asked for the woman to be challenged on this as I could provide various forms of proof of my whereabouts I was told "We don't want to do that", I then asked them if they would like to view the CCTV of that morning that fully supported my version of events ??, they suddenly lost interest and with them muttering something about respecting female neighbours they left pretty sharpish. No action taken against the women making stuff up. But I wondered for a long time what would have happened if I had not had CCTV (put in to reassure the missus after our car was vandalised and the thankfully locked doors tried when I was abroad working) and I had been at home on my time off the week she was in court. I am sure they would have charged me in a heartbeat. I was told later that, at least here in Scotland, if the complaint is from a female against a male the Police have to assume that the female is being truthful, basically she has to be believed. Bit worrying that.

I do feel sorry for the majority of officers who are just doing a difficult job while getting it from all sides it seems the ability to judge for themselves has been removed and they have to go by whatever the stated guidelines are, but the above means I am less likely to trust the Police than before. I expect them to at least be impartial when investigating. The copper I knew back in the day would have told them to grow up and stop wasting his time. I am sure everyone involved had better things to be doing that Sunday.
 
My dad used to speak in awe of the big Hielan bobbies-------He was not in a razor gang.
Back in those days, the old copper joke - "It's gang warfare, and we're the biggest gang" - was very much based on reality.

And if you were stupid enough to seriously injure a copper, God have mercy on you. Because his mates certainly wouldn't. You would fall down so many flights of stairs, extra stairs would have to be provided.
 
It would appear that the truth about prisons is making the news for a few days at least.

If you can’t effectively imprison offenders and you have a policy of early release just because you haven’t invested in the estate or staff for 8 years then what hope do we have of any effective deterrent or rehabilitation. A claim to be recruiting 2500 extra staff after losing 10000 cuts no ice.

Every part of The CJS is close to being unfit for use. Every bit of it has had funding severely cut and has had unthought through reform that has more to do with political ideology than good sense.

The Pol Fed were accused of “crying wolf” a few years ago by May.

Sadly, I think she was wrong.

The Tories, who I have voted for all my life are no longer the party of law and order or strong defence in my opinion. Please don’t see this as an endorsement for Labour, who I have no time for.
 
The Tories, who I have voted for all my life are no longer the party of law and order or strong defence in my opinion. Please don’t see this as an endorsement for Labour, who I have no time for.
You are under the illusion that the current Tory (and Cameron's lot previously) are in any way conservatives. They are not.
 
What view did senior officers take about you fighting with your lesbian colleagues?
They supported my risk assessment to do it in a paddling pool filled with jelly.
 
I was going to comment that this was, "shocking". Sadly, on reflection, it's only a surprise incidents like this haven't become much more widespread.

Wasn't there a proposal earlier this year to routinely arm all rural coppers due to the distance and time issues in getting armed response to a situation?

Not that it will ever happen, of course.
 
Well that gent in the video should thank his lucky stars he lives in the UK. The outcome Stateside would have been much different had he tried that crap. Somehow I think you would have been better off he was removed from the general population though...
 
Look, neither the PM, the Home Office, ACPO or PCCs give a damn about officers.

How many threads do I have to write this basic and obvious truth on?
 
I've always suspected that the increase in taser useage was down to 5 feet nothing police women, not being able to cope physically with any man taller than Warwick Davis.
 
It is not just the physical realm that the old bill has lost.

This is a good article, I genuinely mean that.

Inside the British military base where young hackers learn to stop cybercrime

Now, I frequently remind people it is not alway more fun to be a pirate than to join the Navy. I was fortunate enough in my "career" to be invovled in some tremendously fun things (which as a by-product also did some good).

But this is the poverty of ambition;

Craig Jones, head of preparing cyber-capability at the National Crime Agency, warned that if the UK failed to recruit top-level talent it would not be able to keep pace with criminals. “It’s simple: we are going to struggle. We need the best people to progress, though we also need to recognise that people are not going to stay for a 30-year career in law enforcement,” said Jones.
People won't stay for 30 years perhaps because of T&C's. I was asked to take a GBP 7k paycut when another law enforcement agency was looking to poach me out of my then role. That's just stupid.

I get that we don't want some Russian -style Siloviki (Securocrat-class) linked to loyalty to the state due to personal financial interests.

But people leave law enforcement because they are treated like dirt by stupid bosses. I know of armed officers who left to become train drivers. Better pay, better shifts, better management (alright, that last one doesn't take much).

But when you select people for pinch point skills and then openly conceed you won't keep them, some units had a 18 - 24 month life expectancy. That's no way to retain skills, institutional memory - or even get a job to court!

Critically, when you are led by this bloke -



And HR is like this
Blog_Dilbert_9.gif


Why would anyone stay in public service? I was hihgly motivated once, but eventually I gave up trying to make water run up hill.

Has anyone actually stopped to notice that the only people who stay are in a unique career stream.

It's called promotion.

Not actually operations, going out and nicking people and taking them to court. The sole people who I know who are planning to stay are the ones getting promoted.

And given they don't actually do policing other than accidentally, they don't care about any of the issues we discuss here.
 
During these discussions about getting hands on to criminals, the reality of the event really does to be put across about how the experience is nothing like your service in the forces when dealing with problem civilians.

I had quite a selection of public order incidents when serving and my particular role brought me into contact with refugees etc on a regular basis, and my military service gave me a good foundation for the police.

But the police have their main recruitment pool as the normal ( non-military ) population, these are officers who until recently were just joe public and the great mixture that entails and believe it or not almost all the officers I work with are/were good people who really want to protect their country or the old fashioned desire to protect and help those in greatest need.

Having just transferred from the MET to another force, its the same crap.

Hands on.

I go through at least 20 sets of surgical gloves a day, have to spray down myself and my uniform with medical disinfectant so often I am thinking of becoming a shareholder of the supplying company, and have a uniform replacement so often I look factory fresh everyday.

Almost every official interaction in the past two weeks has ended in an confrontation, Professional Beggars and shop lifters who attack staff and know through experience that they receive no extra punishment if they start spitting or throwing their limbs around and essentially they have got nothing to lose if they get rowdy. Every single one is riddled and you physically retch as soon as you get near them, let alone having to put them into a van or a cell and conduct a srip search or have to watch them for 12 hours in a small hospital ward. Females who have not washed for 6 months, open sores leaking a thin film of pus that gets all over everything are just a few of the savoury moments.TB is another delight that is the flavour of the year, every single person I brought in so far has been Ailment Contagious .


Feral children running riot in groups and committing serious assaults and every other offence you can imagine. They might be pathetic specimens on their own, but as soon as it gets rowdy, and it always does, you then have 5+ teens to deal with at once and the ever present public who suddenly turn up and get in the way and hurl abuse about grappling to what in their minds is children....the fact that said children are on drugs and have just attempted to stab someone and are already known to police for numerous and longstanding violence is obviously unknown to the interfering public.

A burly police officer can put one of these teens down instantly, but just have a look in the papers today in what you have to deal with. You cannot use required force as you have to be compliant to human rights, operational rules, trial by public media and the papers reporting a very edited event. etc Notice how close the camera owner can get as there are no other police to create a cordon.....would you not start getting nervous at this point?

#### Mail Warning##### Controversial video shows burly policeman slapping 14-year-old girl in the face during arrest | Daily Mail Online

Still does not stop us dealing with this every single day and often multiple times every day.
But we are painfully aware that the support we receive, official and from the public is getting scarce to non-existent, the good members of this forum may be happy to say they would jump in and help and I salute that, but the simple fact is that people who would help are in the minority now.



Just be aware that the numbers prepared to do this are getting thinner all the time.
 
During these discussions about getting hands on to criminals, the reality of the event really does to be put across about how the experience is nothing like your service in the forces when dealing with problem civilians.

I had quite a selection of public order incidents when serving and my particular role brought me into contact with refugees etc on a regular basis, and my military service gave me a good foundation for the police.

But the police have their main recruitment pool as the normal ( non-military ) population, these are officers who until recently were just joe public and the great mixture that entails and believe it or not almost all the officers I work with are/were good people who really want to protect their country or the old fashioned desire to protect and help those in greatest need.

Having just transferred from the MET to another force, its the same crap.

Hands on.

I go through at least 20 sets of surgical gloves a day, have to spray down myself and my uniform with medical disinfectant so often I am thinking of becoming a shareholder of the supplying company, and have a uniform replacement so often I look factory fresh everyday.

Almost every official interaction in the past two weeks has ended in an confrontation, Professional Beggars and shop lifters who attack staff and know through experience that they receive no extra punishment if they start spitting or throwing their limbs around and essentially they have got nothing to lose if they get rowdy. Every single one is riddled and you physically retch as soon as you get near them, let alone having to put them into a van or a cell and conduct a srip search or have to watch them for 12 hours in a small hospital ward. Females who have not washed for 6 months, open sores leaking a thin film of pus that gets all over everything are just a few of the savoury moments.TB is another delight that is the flavour of the year, every single person I brought in so far has been Ailment Contagious .


Feral children running riot in groups and committing serious assaults and every other offence you can imagine. They might be pathetic specimens on their own, but as soon as it gets rowdy, and it always does, you then have 5+ teens to deal with at once and the ever present public who suddenly turn up and get in the way and hurl abuse about grappling to what in their minds is children....the fact that said children are on drugs and have just attempted to stab someone and are already known to police for numerous and longstanding violence is obviously unknown to the interfering public.

A burly police officer can put one of these teens down instantly, but just have a look in the papers today in what you have to deal with. You cannot use required force as you have to be compliant to human rights, operational rules, trial by public media and the papers reporting a very edited event. etc Notice how close the camera owner can get as there are no other police to create a cordon.....would you not start getting nervous at this point?

#### Mail Warning##### Controversial video shows burly policeman slapping 14-year-old girl in the face during arrest | Daily Mail Online

Still does not stop us dealing with this every single day and often multiple times every day.
But we are painfully aware that the support we receive, official and from the public is getting scarce to non-existent, the good members of this forum may be happy to say they would jump in and help and I salute that, but the simple fact is that people who would help are in the minority now.



Just be aware that the numbers prepared to do this are getting thinner all the time.
Re. the TB, that and Hep C are very common, quite suddenly, in the part of the justice system I have experience of. I assume drug use is the prime factor in the latter. We are having to arrange thorough decontamination of all areas, daily.
The press are a real problem. They complain about law and order but highlight any story that puts the police in a bad light.
 

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