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Police Protection Officers

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Who suggested that they had skills and drills on parity with Hereford?

It's implicit in this statement:

What makes you think the military are any better qualified or trained than the police?

What has routine close protection got to do with a minuscule number of cops, who the press have chosen to focus on to the exclusion of the other 99.5% who have performed perfectly well. The SMT in The Met deal with life and death and high stress important decisions on a daily basis, I doubt any of them have a quiet life in a city of over 8 million or expect it.

Why do you think that The SAS handed over 99% of all CP Duties to The RMP in the seventies?

Possibly all perfectly true but entirely beside the point under discussion - which you would know if you'd bothered to read the thread rather than simply sound off.
 

Alamo

LE
When in NI, or anywhere, did the police go out on patrol in bricks, or confront a baying mob, all tooled up, or confront insurgents in Irac, Afghanistan, sierra Leone, Aden, Kenya, Kuwait, the Balkans, etc etc

Armed trained soldiers have been around long before the police were ever thought of.

That’s your argument is it? Pte Bloggs is a better bet because, well, he’s a soldier, and despite the fact that the Balkans were before he was even born that conveys some sort of credibility?

I take it from your comments on NI you never served there?
 
It's implicit in this statement:





Possibly all perfectly true but entirely beside the point under discussion - which you would know if you'd bothered to read the thread rather than simply sound off.

You appear to have been the initial person to mention Hereford and suggest their utility versus the current set up. I can’t see that anyone else has, the implication in the quote you give, was the military in general, not SF, you chose to use Hereford as the comparator.

In comparison to the vast majority of the military, who receive little or no training in CQB, CP skills, advanced driving or complex security planning and protocol, it’s not a bad call that they are not comparable for the job of CP.

You chose to mention the subject of recent civpol issues that were totally irrelevant. I am therefore totally within my rights to respond.

Google how many weapons and ammunition that the military have lost and never recovered, it doesn’t make a great read. I’m not looking for a pissing completion. I would imagine that a decent proportion of Met Pol CP cops are ex military, I certainly know a handful of ex RMP CP who work there.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
You appear to have been the initial person to mention Hereford and suggest their utility versus the current set up. I can’t see that anyone else has, the implication in the quote you give, was the military in general, not SF, you chose to use Hereford as the comparator.

In comparison to the vast majority of the military, who receive little or no training in CQB, CP skills, advanced driving or complex security planning and protocol, it’s not a bad call that they are not comparable for the job of CP.

You chose to mention the subject of recent civpol issues that were totally irrelevant. I am therefore totally within my rights to respond.

Google how many weapons and ammunition that the military have lost and never recovered, it doesn’t make a great read. I’m not looking for a pissing completion. I would imagine that a decent proportion of Met Pol CP cops are ex military, I certainly know a handful of ex RMP CP who work there.

Read what he wrote, read how I responded and try not to live down to expectations.

Everyone else on the thread's followed the argument and understood the points. Do try to keep up.
 
noo the Army never lost anything
from the Times


Hundreds of munitions have been lost or stolen from the British military in the past year, according to a freedom of information request.



.
I can only speak of my own experience. Of course stuff goes diffy, but none of the units I was with, both regular and TA, ever, to my knowledge, lost a weapon. And if they did, it must have been kept very quiet.
 

Euclid

War Hero
Let’s do NDs - Police V Army. That’s not been played for a while.

I’ll kick off with mid 80s, GOC NI RMP CP team, MP5 goes off inside his armoured Grenada.
 
There seems to be a general trend on here, not just this thread, to assume that soldiers are better trained in firearms than armed police. I didn't learn to shoot properly until I became an AFO.
Both organisations have firearms as a professional tool. Both organisations provide training in the required skills. Both organisations also employ human beings, who make mistakes. The officer concerned will have to face the consequences of their actions, and quite rightly so. But it doesn't mean the rest of us are shit.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Can we just be clear, did the individual we're talking about actually "lose" the weapon? When they deplaned, they certainly knew where it was, surely? The circumstances would have made it very difficult to retrieve immediately.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Let’s do NDs - Police V Army. That’s not been played for a while.

I’ll kick off with mid 80s, GOC NI RMP CP team, MP5 goes off inside his armoured Grenada.

Have it your way but, I expect that, in terms of standard safety measurements - organisation's manhours carrying a weapon/incident and organisation's number of rounds fired/incident, it won't look good for the police.
 
Interesting.
Is it illegal to chip SWMBO? She fecks off with the trolley as well soon as my back's turned.
Thought about one of them, but I don't think she's too keen.
View attachment 505608
I'm up for that - Madame mnairb can vanish in an empty shop, I sometimes think that she is from some advanced future civilisation and beams up to a starship to check out if Alpha Centauri is still there. She's not known as SWMBO - more BMUS (Beam Me Up Scottie).
 
Have it your way but, I expect that, in terms of standard safety measurements - organisation's manhours carrying a weapon/incident and organisation's number of rounds fired/incident, it won't look good for the police.
Where should we start, to extrapolate that data? The vast majority of police officers don't carry firearms, ever, while all soldiers do, sometimes. So you are comparing apples with oranges.
 

Dr Death

War Hero
1600522394958.png

Other weapons are available/lost on planes.
 
Where should we start, to extrapolate that data? The vast majority of police officers don't carry firearms, ever, while all soldiers do, sometimes. So you are comparing apples with oranges.

But, But, But Hereford. BLM. XR. Met Pol Senior Management.
 

Alamo

LE
Where should we start, to extrapolate that data? The vast majority of police officers don't carry firearms, ever, while all soldiers do, sometimes. So you are comparing apples with oranges.
The average armed policeman carries a weapon far more regularly than the vast majority of green army soldiers, and is far better trained.
 
The average armed policeman carries a weapon far more regularly than the vast majority of green army soldiers, and is far better trained.
Sshhhh.........you'll upset someone.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Where should we start, to extrapolate that data? The vast majority of police officers don't carry firearms, ever, while all soldiers do, sometimes. So you are comparing apples with oranges.

Not really, you simply look at total manhours spent carrying a loaded weapon with relation to the total number of incidents and then factor in environmental factors in a reasonable fashion - lack of sleep, situational control etc.
The bottom line is that the average police contact is far less chaotic than the average battlefield contact and the police aren't generally trying to win the firefight.

By any objective measure, I would expect fewer ND's from the police but everyone's human and any unit can make a mistake. An ND is not a reason to throw an entire group of individuals under the bus, particularly not individuals who put themselves in harm's way for the sake of the rest of us, but it is a good reason to take the piss mercilessly - at least until one of one's own number makes the same mistake...
 
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When in NI, or anywhere, did the police go out on patrol in bricks, or confront a baying mob, all tooled up, or confront insurgents in Irac, Afghanistan, sierra Leone, Aden, Kenya, Kuwait, the Balkans, etc etc

Armed trained soldiers have been around long before the police were ever thought of.
I've really tried to work out the relevance of this post and can't.
Care to point out what I'm missing? As I can't see the connection between your wibble and the training undertaken by a police personal protection officer.
 

Euclid

War Hero
Have it your way but, I expect that, in terms of standard safety measurements - organisation's manhours carrying a weapon/incident and organisation's number of rounds fired/incident, it won't look good for the police.
The police have had shitloads - including some well documented fatalities. I was merely taking a gratuitous swipe at the RMP, we can move on to the RAF Regt next.
 

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