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Police overtime racket hits the buffers

#3
Oh well, maybe they'll have to spend more time doing crimefighting instead of genning up on all the OT rackets?

Police chiefs to axe overtime in bid to slash £500m bill | Mail Online
This is old news mate. The overtime ran out over a year ago. Even the Doors Posts & Gates (DPG) of the metrocomical police farce, the traditional cash cow, have had to cut back.

I didn't bother reading the Wail article. What are they going to replace the on call payments with? I can't imagine any of the sergeants or PC's who actually get these magical payments (never got it once in 9 years, despite being on a specialist for almost 5 of them) giving their spare time for free.
 
#5
Just get on a fixed salary just like the rest of the world.
Then they'd never get anyone to work on. Whilst there are loads of "overtime bandits" in the OB who take the piss (mainly in the CID, where they don't do anything until about an hour before the end of the shift), I don't see how any shift worker should be expected to give up their free time for fook all.
 
#6
Last week I received a copy of a report Police had drawn up for complainant and IPCC. Professional Standards civilian investigator (ex plod) a DCI and a Det Ch Supt plus admin support weeks of work.

I took my pen and I wrote dates in the margin alongside each paragraph. The report contained no dates just garbled versions of events without designatiing them as cause or effect.

The complaint is about a murder inquiry and the conduct of the case officer DCI up to 25th January 2010. The events, in their report, occurred from 7th February onwards. Two minutes of my time, using memory and case knowledge without reference even to the file, to take apart weeks of senior detective police work. They really are that incompetent.

There is no one person (DCI in charge of murder inquiry, Force Legal Services, Case Review team etc ad nauseum) in the police who has an overview of the case. They have a mechanistic system of management which is not fit for purpose.

They exist in their managed guideline led reality and doggedly believe it is rational. Complaint actually confuses each individual officer in the case. Each is certain that the complaint must relate to the function of another officer. Each feels certain they did their part "Proportionately" and in accordance with ACPO guidelines.

It is a world in which if the officer shows no sense of duty, no individual sense of purpose, no initiative and opts to do nothing then that can be defended as "Proportionate". (We judged it was not worth doing so we did not do it, we don't know if the action would have informed the murder inquiry because we did not do it but it was proportionate not to have done it, in this case they did not forensically test property they seized as evidence at the murder scene) The public sector mentality where doing nothing equates in their own minds to doing nothing wrong.

In this case I have a reference number for Legal Services, a different series of reference numbers for Pro Standards (They call it Service Delivery Unit or some such) and no reference at all for the murder inquiry team. The only person with a case overview is me acting for the complainant who is father of the murdered man.

I find that the police actually have no concept of the rule of law. They have an aberrant version of reality in which they somehow are the law. They invent rules with no appreciation the rule does not exist. I get letters telling me I am not entitled to see the evidence police submitted to IPCC. I question that. The reply was a gem. "What we meant was if this evidence exists you would not be entitled to see it".

I write back "You listed it". And as a guess maybe I should not have been sent the list ? I asked for disclosure, they refused and I got the disclosure through the court. Police think "Effing hell what the Judge playing at don't he know that man isn't entitled to see those documents what sort of world is it coming to when a Judge won't back up his colleagues in social control and law enforcement".

And what I noticed too is how much the officers are but cogs in a system. Murder. Forensics. "What have forensics got for us ?" "Nuffink guv". "F-ck"

The victim returned home to a power cut at his home. The total police inquiry into this was to contact the electricity board to ask if there had been a power cut in the area. To find that out I had the first seven complaints of negligence in the inquiry upheld by IPCC.

OK so now we know you did not investigate the power cut. So now Bounce Banana will put you right. BB has traced the former owners of the house. Power cuts were frequent and due to an earth fault on the electric security gates. The house was sold with this fault still in place. And they tell me that a nuisance aspect of the power cuts was that it triggered their alarm system. I produce photos of the house and draw your plod attention to a number of strategically positioned PIR movement detector lights. And also to large lights atop each of the electric gate pillars.

From the evidence I know that power was on at the point someone tried to operate the electric gates because the gates moved "But too slowly". We also know that the gates had a longstanding fault which tripped the electrics up to four times per evening. So we can try believing the police assumption that an assassin intruder, with no fear of triggering the alarm, switched the power off to set up a kill zone. Thus alerting the returning victim that power was off his house (because his pillar lights were out).

Or we can believe that a known cause and effect relationship occurred. That the act of trying to operate the gates caused the power cut. Witness says she cannot recall whether or not she restored power. If she had done so all the outside lights would have illuminated and individually timed out. After that the outside witness (taxi driver) would have known if there was any movement in the grounds during the disgusting 45 minute response time to a shooting murder because the PIR light detecting movement would have illuminated. Then the question of how was the alarm silent unless it had been reset by someone who knew its code.

This is not rocket science. But Police cannot do it. They attach to the point of obsession to a scenario. In this case they thought the power cut was evidence of a lurking assassin waiting in the house. With no other evidence of an intruder whatsoever. They thought once they had ruled out an area power cut their scenario was established. It is actually farcical.

Part of their obsessive scenario remains in their minds. That the power cut occurred before the shooting. I return to my opening theme. Time of the event. Cause and effect. Why rule out that the power cut caused the shooting ? Why assume the shooting was an event after the power cut event. What if someone tried operating the electric gates. What if that tripped power off the house leaving gunman and victim plunged into darkness. Bang bang. And that would explain why the shooting occurred before the taxi driver outside witness had driven off. That gives rise to an interesting question. Who then reset the alarm ? What outside lighting events did the taxi driver see ?

Not rocket science. I now have nine complaints against the murder inquiry upheld at IPCC and am going for the tenth.

I think the country has to, at some point, recognise that the Police, in the form they allowed themselves to develop, must be replaced by a professional and accountable body of more competent Crown officers. At present police are a waste of public money.
 
#7
The whole OT outrage bus is built on Daily Wail misreporting.

The small handfull of specialists on £100K are protection officers in and out places like Afghan working 24 hour days, i doubt they amount to more than 30-40 people in the entire UK police service. Even the stated average annual OT take, £3.5K seems high to me. I would be surprised if I make £2K before tax, and I am a top rate PS (so the highest paid basic rate of the overtime earning ranks) and I have never ever been paid for taking a phone call from home. Its disinformation ahead of the pay cuts and pension rises (and before we even get into pay feeezes I am going to lose about £1k)
 

Auld-Yin

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#10
The whole OT outrage bus is built on Daily Wail misreporting.
I saw a t-shirt in Edinburgh yesterday which raised a smile. It read

"I am the man the Daily Mail warned you about."

Strangely enough, he looked like wuite a normal guy :)
 
#11
Then they'd never get anyone to work on. Whilst there are loads of "overtime bandits" in the OB who take the piss (mainly in the CID, where they don't do anything until about an hour before the end of the shift), I don't see how any shift worker should be expected to give up their free time for fook all.
Happens all the time in the private sector, so i hear. I certainly give up a lot of my own time to get work done, but I'm a billy-no-mates and my kids are annoying. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the seagull.
 
#12
Last week I received a copy of a report Police had drawn up for complainant and IPCC. Professional Standards civilian investigator (ex plod) a DCI and a Det Ch Supt plus admin support weeks of work.

I took my pen and I wrote dates in the margin alongside each paragraph. The report contained no dates just garbled versions of events without designatiing them as cause or effect.

The complaint is about a murder inquiry and the conduct of the case officer DCI up to 25th January 2010. The events, in their report, occurred from 7th February onwards. Two minutes of my time, using memory and case knowledge without reference even to the file, to take apart weeks of senior detective police work. They really are that incompetent.

There is no one person (DCI in charge of murder inquiry, Force Legal Services, Case Review team etc ad nauseum) in the police who has an overview of the case. They have a mechanistic system of management which is not fit for purpose.

They exist in their managed guideline led reality and doggedly believe it is rational. Complaint actually confuses each individual officer in the case. Each is certain that the complaint must relate to the function of another officer. Each feels certain they did their part "Proportionately" and in accordance with ACPO guidelines.

It is a world in which if the officer shows no sense of duty, no individual sense of purpose, no initiative and opts to do nothing then that can be defended as "Proportionate". (We judged it was not worth doing so we did not do it, we don't know if the action would have informed the murder inquiry because we did not do it but it was proportionate not to have done it, in this case they did not forensically test property they seized as evidence at the murder scene) The public sector mentality where doing nothing equates in their own minds to doing nothing wrong.

In this case I have a reference number for Legal Services, a different series of reference numbers for Pro Standards (They call it Service Delivery Unit or some such) and no reference at all for the murder inquiry team. The only person with a case overview is me acting for the complainant who is father of the murdered man.

I find that the police actually have no concept of the rule of law. They have an aberrant version of reality in which they somehow are the law. They invent rules with no appreciation the rule does not exist. I get letters telling me I am not entitled to see the evidence police submitted to IPCC. I question that. The reply was a gem. "What we meant was if this evidence exists you would not be entitled to see it".

I write back "You listed it". And as a guess maybe I should not have been sent the list ? I asked for disclosure, they refused and I got the disclosure through the court. Police think "Effing hell what the Judge playing at don't he know that man isn't entitled to see those documents what sort of world is it coming to when a Judge won't back up his colleagues in social control and law enforcement".

And what I noticed too is how much the officers are but cogs in a system. Murder. Forensics. "What have forensics got for us ?" "Nuffink guv". "F-ck"

The victim returned home to a power cut at his home. The total police inquiry into this was to contact the electricity board to ask if there had been a power cut in the area. To find that out I had the first seven complaints of negligence in the inquiry upheld by IPCC.

OK so now we know you did not investigate the power cut. So now Bounce Banana will put you right. BB has traced the former owners of the house. Power cuts were frequent and due to an earth fault on the electric security gates. The house was sold with this fault still in place. And they tell me that a nuisance aspect of the power cuts was that it triggered their alarm system. I produce photos of the house and draw your plod attention to a number of strategically positioned PIR movement detector lights. And also to large lights atop each of the electric gate pillars.

From the evidence I know that power was on at the point someone tried to operate the electric gates because the gates moved "But too slowly". We also know that the gates had a longstanding fault which tripped the electrics up to four times per evening. So we can try believing the police assumption that an assassin intruder, with no fear of triggering the alarm, switched the power off to set up a kill zone. Thus alerting the returning victim that power was off his house (because his pillar lights were out).

Or we can believe that a known cause and effect relationship occurred. That the act of trying to operate the gates caused the power cut. Witness says she cannot recall whether or not she restored power. If she had done so all the outside lights would have illuminated and individually timed out. After that the outside witness (taxi driver) would have known if there was any movement in the grounds during the disgusting 45 minute response time to a shooting murder because the PIR light detecting movement would have illuminated. Then the question of how was the alarm silent unless it had been reset by someone who knew its code.

This is not rocket science. But Police cannot do it. They attach to the point of obsession to a scenario. In this case they thought the power cut was evidence of a lurking assassin waiting in the house. With no other evidence of an intruder whatsoever. They thought once they had ruled out an area power cut their scenario was established. It is actually farcical.

Part of their obsessive scenario remains in their minds. That the power cut occurred before the shooting. I return to my opening theme. Time of the event. Cause and effect. Why rule out that the power cut caused the shooting ? Why assume the shooting was an event after the power cut event. What if someone tried operating the electric gates. What if that tripped power off the house leaving gunman and victim plunged into darkness. Bang bang. And that would explain why the shooting occurred before the taxi driver outside witness had driven off. That gives rise to an interesting question. Who then reset the alarm ? What outside lighting events did the taxi driver see ?

Not rocket science. I now have nine complaints against the murder inquiry upheld at IPCC and am going for the tenth.

I think the country has to, at some point, recognise that the Police, in the form they allowed themselves to develop, must be replaced by a professional and accountable body of more competent Crown officers. At present police are a waste of public money.
Send keysetting. Over!

On second thoughts. Knocknee is that you?
 
#13
Happens all the time in the private sector, so i hear. I certainly give up a lot of my own time to get work done, but I'm a billy-no-mates and my kids are annoying. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the seagull.
Well, I don't personally understand people who give up their free time (unless perhaps if they're self employed) for work and are happy not to be compensated for it. There's more to life than work, it's too short to spend toiling.

Besides, I'm sure you've got lots of mates;)
 
#16
Aye thangyew.

But back to the point, I can't say that I am happy to give up my own time uncompensated but that's the harsh reality of the modern workplace. I'm lucky enough to work in Higher Education where job security is about as good as anything is these days. In the private sector, employers can very easily make people scared of unemployment if they don't work for nothing after hours. That's why I can't understand people who say that we don't need unions anymore because we've got all the employment rights we need.

How long does anyone think it'd take to have those rights repealed as 'burdensome regulation' if employers could get away with it? Relying on philanthropy didn't really work out all that well last time we tried it.
 
#17
In relation to plod overtime, what my personal belief is that the government will attempt to scrap overtime to the PCs and SGTs the same way they did with the Inspectors. They'll offer a, what seems at the time to be, a large payrise in exchange for officers overtime rights. The mon-fri 9-5, and other depts (such as custody sgts) will vote for it and it might even get through as currently (from what I hear from my mates back in the UK) there's no overtime for frontline officers either.

But what they forget is that it's the overtime costs which stop the management from ordering people to work on. Once free from that burden it'll be open season. "oh, you work in the diversity dept? Soon as your done get your uniform on and work an extra 4hrs" (not necessarily a bad thing as some of the office dwellers might even see the streets), or "I don't care if you've been in work covering calls for 10hrs and it's your last shift, you'll have to do another 4".
 
#18
Then they'd never get anyone to work on. Whilst there are loads of "overtime bandits" in the OB who take the piss (mainly in the CID, where they don't do anything until about an hour before the end of the shift), I don't see how any shift worker should be expected to give up their free time for fook all.
"Shift worker" - most amusing. The problem is that there is a vast army of Police Officers who are not working shifts but are being paid top dollar. "Intel" CID officers would be getting AO money if they were in the Civil Service. They would also be getting AO terms and conditions for pensions etc. I also know a uniform PC who works full-time in a school - leaves the house at 7.30 every morning and is home in time for tea with his kids.
 
#19
How easy it is to have a go at the plod :) I did it myself for years then made the unfortunate mistake of believing the hype and joined, nearly 6 years later I feel 20 years older. The ACPO guided report into Police OT is a wonderful piece of writing and what I'd come to expect from an organisation such as that.
I do however agree 100% with the sentiment being expressed about the work shy, lazy, office dwelling senior Constables milking 50k a year while carrying out functions that could most certainly be carried out by Civilian staff.
To be honest the senior command teams in ALL UK forces/services should have a wee gander at the "perks and jollies" that they go on and their strange need to have a Police driver pick them up, drive them around etc. Cant they drive themselves?? then why do they need to hire out 5 star conferencing facilities when there is no doubt in my mind that the forces have their own perfectly acceptable facilities. Lets be honest most of us can name people who we work with (if your plod) who absolutely rip the c*ck out of overtime and more so, believe it's their right to do so, but how do we stop it when the senior officers are at times the worst examples of this type of behaviour.
Here's a strange and maybe daft idea, but lets have the Auditors in to have a wee look at some of the misappropriation of funds in the contracts and services end of the job, millions of pounds spent giving peelers fancy assed phones, the vast majority of whom think they are much use as tits on a fcukin bull and replacing computer systems, that while old and a little slow, worked perfectly well and did the job correctly, with a white elephant not fit for purpose and as much use a chocolate dildo! Or the Superintendent who refuses to allow a whole district to order and wear fleeces (even though they are half the price of the useless plastic fcukin jumper) because he thinks "they don't look right", I'm not going to be able to quote complete prices but if you think 800 plod ordering 1 fleece each at 20 quid, sixteen grand, now we are entitled to 4 jumpers, most guys would only order one, but imagine if they all ordered the 4 they where entitled to, one hundred and twenty eight grand!, even if we did only save sixteen grand that's sixteen thousand pounds! that's quite a few hours!!.
How fcuking easy it is for Sir Hugh Orde and his 2IC (the fool responsible for the PSNI's multi-million pound white elephant computer system) to sit and pontificate about cutting Police OT in their ivory towers, when even some of his own ACPO senior officers have expressed concern about how much they are being paid themselves!.
Yea lets cut the uniform OT budget........................C*CKS!!

Edited to add, I also think it's a fcuking disgrace being able to claim 4 hours pay for receiving a phone call at home! and have NEVER and never will claim it, and I'd challenge any plod who does it to man or woman up and hang your head in shame!!
 
#20
" I also know a uniform PC who works full-time in a school - leaves the house at 7.30 every morning and is home in time for tea with his kids.
Take it from me, thats the hardest job I had in 16 years, much of which I have spent on response or task forces on 24/7 shift patterns ..... Very diffiult to recruit into, significantly higher risk of career killing complaints and terrible internal politics.

Trotsky
 

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