Police/Military equivalent rank

#1
Right, I'm aware that in the upper echelons of the civil service people have equivalent military rank so that when they're working alongside the army they've got the right clearance etc.... However does this extend across all governmental branches.

I was informed the other day (and oh how i would love this to be true) that the police force also applies such rules. For instance a Constable is roughly equivalent to a private/JNCO, a sergeant is equal to a sergeant and then inspector and above are equal to commissioned ranks.

Does this mean that next time some fat smug policeman decides to harass me, poke me in the chest and generally accuse me of something i haven't done whilst ignoring the old lady being mugged round the corner, that i can brief him up? It sounds extremely dubious to me, but how much would you love to tell him to "Pipe down and wind your neck in" (whilst giving it some Brecon point action)?......
 
#2
Bromhead said:
I was informed the other day (and oh how i would love this to be true) that the police force also applies such rules. For instance a Constable is roughly equivalent to a private/JNCO, a sergeant is equal to a sergeant and then inspector and above are equal to commissioned ranks.
There is no official equivalence between army and military ranks. For example, a constable doesn't have to salute an army officer. We don't even salute our own, actually. I have given the compliment to military officers in the past as a courtesy, though. In any case, police officers view promotion completely differently from soldiers; the vast majority of coppers retire at the rank of constable with no sense that they should have progressed "further" (as by the time you hit chief inspector you are not really doing much operational police work anyway). For some specialisms rank is actually a hindrance, as our managers are usually generalists.

What I can say is that I have been a guest on military establishments on several occasions in a professional capacity. The constables and sergeants were invited to the Sergeant's Mess and the inspector to the Officer's Mess. I suspect this had little to do with any official recognition of rank, but common courtesy.

Does this mean that next time some fat smug policeman decides to harass me, poke me in the chest and generally accuse me of something i haven't done whilst ignoring the old lady being mugged round the corner, that i can brief him up?
No, you can't. Trust me. In any case, police officers have powers of arrest that transcend "rank" and policemen are perfectly entitled to dispute orders that are contrary to law. It's a classic case of "I think you are mistaking your rank with my authority."

Veg.

Edited to add: I really should point out that Constable is both a rank and an appointment. A superintendent, for example, still holds the "Office of Constable" (and is, technically, a constable) and enjoys the same powers of arrest. His rank is an externally awarded management grade. This might be where some of the confusion comes in; our police force was specifically designed to be as un-military as possible by Peel, unlike on the continent where the police can trace a common heritage with a profusion of military and paramilitary organisations.

With the increasing civilianization of policing this might well change.
 
#3
This sounds like another case of someone not understanding how Civi Street works!!! Trying to out-rank a policeman, FFS.

Fella, outside the Army, NOBODY gives a flying fck if you are or was in the Army.
 
#4
Fella, outside the Army, NOBODY gives a flying fck if you are or was in the Army.

Except all of us on the forums your home from home when civvie strasse gets too civilianised!
 
#5
Bromhead said:
Does this mean that next time some fat smug policeman decides to harass me, poke me in the chest and generally accuse me of something i haven't done whilst ignoring the old lady being mugged round the corner, that i can brief him up? It sounds extremely dubious to me, but how much would you love to tell him to "Pipe down and wind your neck in" (whilst giving it some Brecon point action)?......
8O


Sure it does ..... If you want a free lift to some fine outstanding over night accommodation with a free breakfast chucked in (literally some times) :lol: :lol: :lol:



You were takin the piss, werent you???
 
#6
Thanks for taking the trouble to post all that very interesting info, Veg. That's certainly cleared up a lot of things I was unsure about regarding the Army and the Old Bill.

MsG
 
#7
amazing__lobster said:
This sounds like another case of someone not understanding how Civi Street works!!! Trying to out-rank a policeman, FFS.

Fella, outside the Army, NOBODY gives a flying fck if you are or was in the Army.
entirely agree, there is no equivalence between police and military rank. Further, miltary rank is no use whatsoever outside the Army.

yours

Sub Sonic
Maj ( Retd)
 
#8
Vegetius said:
Bromhead said:
I was informed the other day (and oh how i would love this to be true) that the police force also applies such rules. For instance a Constable is roughly equivalent to a private/JNCO, a sergeant is equal to a sergeant and then inspector and above are equal to commissioned ranks.
There is no official equivalence between army and military ranks. For example, a constable doesn't have to salute an army officer. We don't even salute our own, actually. I have given the compliment to military officers in the past as a courtesy, though.
Veg, if you can remember in the CID you are supposed to salute inspectors and above, commissioned officers in the armed forces, various colours and the royal family. Oh yeah and herses. Apart from the odd funeral cortege I haven't done so since trg school though.

Trotsky
 
#9
^ Cheers. I do remember saluting a funeral cortege once, as well as some army officers at a big army wedding I was wandering past in a westerly direction. I also remember the flat-handed, palm forwards "police salute" (cf. George Dixon).

Being CID, it is very easy to forget these things.

@ Bugsy, no problem.

Veg.
 
#10
Some very copperish coppers of my acquaintance - many years ago in Belfast - would lap it up when new 'English' turned up in their fair city dressed in Green every six months. There was always, always the prat who thought that a Constable was by definition the equivalent of a Private Soldier, and could be treated as such. Not the case, and biannually some dim faces would glow red on being instructed. On the other hand, a certain Brigade Commander, now a Very Senior Figure, was sensitive to the distinctions, and made himself very popular and respected throughout the 'ranks' for this. Maybe that's one of the reasons why he's Very Senior.
 
#11
Bromhead said:
Right, I'm aware that in the upper echelons of the civil service people have equivalent military rank so that when they're working alongside the army they've got the right clearance etc.... However does this extend across all governmental branches.

I was informed the other day (and oh how i would love this to be true) that the police force also applies such rules. For instance a Constable is roughly equivalent to a private/JNCO, a sergeant is equal to a sergeant and then inspector and above are equal to commissioned ranks.

Does this mean that next time some fat smug policeman decides to harass me, poke me in the chest and generally accuse me of something i haven't done whilst ignoring the old lady being mugged round the corner, that i can brief him up? It sounds extremely dubious to me, but how much would you love to tell him to "Pipe down and wind your neck in" (whilst giving it some Brecon point action)?......
Bromhead, why dont you try me? Your feet wont be touching the ground laddie. Biggest gang in the world mate.

Pip pip

Effy
 
#12
Efargee20 let me know when it's happening, i'd pay to see it and obviously be there to ensure you dont p*ss on his MOD90 ;)
 
#13
Happily, this is rarely a problem. A S/Sgt and WO2 I used to deal with regularly some years ago seemed to get it straight off the bat using a bit of common sense and courtesty. Even the RSM I respectfully called "sir" the first time I met him was perfectly happy to be on first name terms.

They understood that the rank thing was redundant, really, as British coppers are (after all) civilians.

Veg.
 
#15
Hope what is true jon?

Orde's pontifications are nothing but the same old platitudes and cliches about policing that he and others trot out with sickening frequency.

My service in the RUC and then PSNI taught me what was the one thing senior officers value above all, and what they see as the holy grail of policing in NI-

Yellow fu**ing coats.

We have Orde even spouting it in this paper. When he has the slightest experience of front line on the job policing in NI, which he has not, maybe he would not partonise the force with his naive pronouncements.

Back to the topic there is zero correlation between Army and Police ranks.
 
#16
BlotBangRub said:
My service in the RUC and then PSNI taught me what was the one thing senior officers value above all, and what they see as the holy grail of policing in NI-

Yellow fu**ing coats.
That just shows how normal NI's getting, our bosses see yellow jackets as the holy grail of policing as well. Especially as they strike terrorists dumb with fear apparantly.

Trotsky
 
#17
Trotsky, i see "normalisation" has a downside then!

I was more concerned about the dreadful condition of the Police estate, the unroadworthy, dangerous vehicles, the stoneage working practices and equipment, the rubbish quality uniform, the complete lack of any useful support services such as on call SOCO, the overstretch at fingerprints branch, etc, the huge amount of time wasted on paperwork which could be carried out by civvies if we could recruit any (cant, not enough RC's applied), the divisive pay agreements, the low morale, the removal and scaling down of security, the insufficient human resourcing and above all the result off all this, the crap service we gave the public in many cases. This is what I would be addressing, not boring us all about yellow coats as if that is the criteria by which policing is measured.
 
#18
BlotBangRub said:
Hope what is true jon?

Orde's pontifications are nothing but the same old platitudes and cliches about policing that he and others trot out with sickening frequency.

My service in the RUC and then PSNI taught me what was the one thing senior officers value above all, and what they see as the holy grail of policing in NI-

Yellow fu**ing coats.

We have Orde even spouting it in this paper. When he has the slightest experience of front line on the job policing in NI, which he has not, maybe he would not partonise the force with his naive pronouncements.
Just wondering....

What exactly do you not like about Orde's pontifications? Aren't senior officers correct in saying yellow coats are important - in that they represent a normal policing service? Can you give examples of where his lack of NI experience has caused him to make the wrond decisions?

This isn't a dig at you nor is it support for Orde... I'm just curious....

Cheers,
Tricam.
 
#20
No equivalint rank; the police, at the end of the day, are only civilians.
If the police find a situation too much to handle they can, as a last resort, call in the Army. The reverse does not apply.
 

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