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Police launch new child sex grooming probe in Rochdale

To those who say something must be done, what do you think the sentencing of these 9 men to long prison sentences and the arrest of further gangs is doing?
If one was a cynic one could say, much like the MPs' expenses scandal, that a sticking plaster is being applied, sufficient to stem the tide of outrage until it subsides, but insufficient to eliminate the cause of the problem.
 
That's unfair and beneath you. All the points are perfectly valid even his last sentence because the BNP are already trying to make out that all Pakistanis are paedophiles and that we should remove all Pakistanis from our shores along with every other Muslim. You may support that, I don't know, but what I do know is that you can remove every Pakistani and every Muslim and it's not going to stop children being abused in this country.

To those who say something must be done, what do you think the sentencing of these 9 men to long prison sentences and the arrest of further gangs is doing?

Something is being done and it's being done now.

BTW Supermatelot, you don't have to have grown up in a Northern Town to be aware of problems. Have you ever thought that you're maybe just too close to the problem to give it any real perspective? What have you done about the problem? You moan about emigrating, why not lobby your MP or join the police? You say nothing is being done but you expect everyone else to be doing the 'something' while you pack your bags and leave. Still, you'll not need to look after your children if you go somewhere where there's no Pakistanis will you?
I disagree Mark. This subject has attracted a type of Godwin's law response for the past 20 years. People throw themselves onto the racism accusation bandwagon and mention BNP / National front at the first opportunity. Often people who have no real experience of what the problems are, but have formed opinion from whatever media source suits their outlook best.
I know what the problems are based on my childhood. I left when I joined the mob at 16 and now only go back maybe twice a year. That allows me to still see objectively what is happening.
 
Okay, or hebephiles, however I stand by my statement that broad-brushing these criminals as paedophiles is a measured statement in order to whip up as much outrage as possible. There is a reason why we have different words for Manslaughter and Murder, Burglary and Robbery, etc etc. Same ball park but my point is that there are segments of the media and bellwhiffs on here who mislabel these criminals in order to provoke an amplified response.

The crime is bad, however be wary of people using the most emotive label they can get away with in order to further their own agendas.
You make an excellent point but equally the converse could be true.

Nowadays we talk about joy riding when we really mean stealing a car. We talk about happy slapping instead of unprovoked violence. We use terms that sound more like pastimes than crimes yet the consequence of those crimes can be severe for the victim.

I take your point that we would normally consider a paedophile as someone who is attracted to pre-teen children and that in the latest cases we are dealing with teens, some of whom will be precocious and even experimental. The point with ephebophiles is that they can operate perfectly legally if they stick to 16-19 year olds but these people are not they're preying on girls who are underage.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence, well said.
 
You are part of the problem - your last sentence sort of gave you away.
I have to disagree that I'm part of the problem.

The problem is that a (very small) number of men are preying on young girls.
It's slightly exacerbated by the fact that there appear to be a number of vulnerable young girls who are easy prey for these men.


As I'm not a peado, parent or teenage girl I'm really not part of the problem.



I could have worded the BNP bit of my post better - I wasn't stating that all people who come down on the other side of the fence were BNP types, just that a number of them are and they seem to fill these types of threads up very quickly.
 
Ok Matt, I accept that.
I just find it frustrating though because the way I see it - the problems have been allowed to escalate because too many people associated ANY criticism of immigrants as "BNP type thinking". People were, and still are afraid to voice their true concerns lest they be labelled.
 
I disagree Mark. This subject has attracted a type of Godwin's law response for the past 20 years. People throw themselves onto the racism accusation bandwagon and mention BNP / National front at the first opportunity. Often people who have no real experience of what the problems are, but have formed opinion from whatever media source suits their outlook best.
I know what the problems are based on my childhood. I left when I joined the mob at 16 and now only go back maybe twice a year. That allows me to still see objectively what is happening.
It just depends how the racism angle is handled. There are those who would like to make this all about race and/or religion. No-one, even the BNP, are going to come right out and say all Pakistanis are paedophiles get rid of the lot of them, what they do is talk about the Pakistani problem and make their rhetoric give people the impression that this crime is a Paksitani thing. This is wrong on two counts, it's grossly unfair to the vast majority of law-abiding Pakistanis and it's diverting attention from others who would groom underage girls for sex.

Why is it that so many people are calling for something to be done about Pakistanis and/or Muslims but not many people seem to be calling for these vulnerable girls to be given greater support and protection? Does anyone really think that getting rid of every Pakistani would solve the problem? These girls would just become the victims of some other predatory group because they're desperate for someone to take an interest in them, any interest even abuse and exploitation.

To make this about race suits some agendas but it doesn't solve the problem so we should be looking for a solution not going off on a sidetrack.
 
Ok Matt, I accept that.
I just find it frustrating though because the way I see it - the problems have been allowed to escalate because too many people associated ANY criticism of immigrants as "BNP type thinking". People were, and still are afraid to voice their true concerns lest they be labelled.
I agree that much debate has been stifled in the past, especially by Labour who love to label anything that questions their actions as 'hate' crime. However much of the argument that you hear on less well moderated sites is based on racist assumptions. Calling them all dirty backward wogs is not going to solve the problem. Seeking ways to integrate the two communities as best you can is.

I agree with you that giving one section of the community an easy ride is counter productive. On the one hand it causes resentment on the other is makes certain people feel they have carte blanche to do as they will. I would do away with all charges that relate to race because if a racial motivation comes out in the trial then the judge has the discretion to up the sentence on that basis anyway. People play the 'race' card because it works and it is weighted in their favour. We need to stop positive discriminating and we need to treat every case on its merits.
 
Ok Matt, I accept that.
I just find it frustrating though because the way I see it - the problems have been allowed to escalate because too many people associated ANY criticism of immigrants as "BNP type thinking". People were, and still are afraid to voice their true concerns lest they be labelled.
Indeed - I didn't want to go all Goodwin's law and stifle all debate by labelling people! The problem with these threads though is that any sensible discussion just gets lost in amongst the racist crayoning.
 
I think this threads doing pretty sound so far. Not much crayoning

I just want to emphasise though - the sexual aspect is what has brought this problem to wider public awareness. It is only the tip of the iceberg though. Allow a group of people concessions and liberties get taken.

I doubt we'll hear much about the drugs rings, housing scams and brown envelopes at local politics though etc. The government will just wheel out another "community leader" to explain that these are only a very small minority etc etc and "community cohesion" and "we must educate people that" etc etc.
 
One of the real threats to local life isn't a few dozen organised perverts. We can do that ourselves over the Internet.

Instead, it's the continued systematic corruption of local political life, which reinforces the grip of those who want to be the biggest fish in the small pond of the ghetto.

To our shame, the existing political parties- (and yes, Labour with its inner city bias are considerably the worst offender) have connived at this. They should have done something about the 'subcontinental' voting practices and organised corruption of the postal voting system a long time ago, but chose not to.

To quote the Joseph Rowntree foundation report of 2008:

"...with regard to convictions for electoral fraud Wilks-Heeg noted that ‘there is no denying that numerous convictions for electoral fraud since 2000 have concerned postal and proxy ballot fraud in specific inner-urban wards where a large concentration of voters originate from the Indian sub-continent’ and he cited the cases in Oldham, Blackburn, Burnley and Birmingham.

The report also examined the effect of the Biraderi (‘brotherhood’) system on electoral practices in some British Asian communities. Wilks-Heeg acknowledged that this issue required further and more detailed research and that much of the existing knowledge depended heavily on largely anecdotal evidence but he noted that ‘it has been widely suggested that the Biraderi system disenfranchises voters, given the combination of a patriarchal clan system and widespread ‘use of postal voting, in which ballot papers are completed within the family home, or, in some cases, taken to a central facility (so called ‘voting factories’) for completion by party representatives."

If you continue to allow a system that steals the voice of the citizens in order to put some local hack with the right colour rosette into the Town Hall, then you get the democracy you deserve. The citizens quite rightly think that Westminster doesn't give a shit about them, so if they want to get anything done, they'll have to grovel to the local headman, just like back in the old country.

From there it's a short step from "They aren't interested in us" to "If they aren't watching us...Hmmmm... what can I get away with?"
 

Raven2008

On ROPS
On ROPs
So, to those who say it's a Pakistani Muslim thing, why are there Afro-Caribbean in this one?

It could just be that the victim herself was drawn to non-whites, some girls are. That doesn't mean she was any less of a victim but merely that some people wish to spend their time with those who are slightly different. If she was then taken advantage of then that is inexcusable. If she mainly spent her time with non-whites then it's more than likely that her abusers will be non-white, it's called opportunity.

The Professor of Classics got it right on QT when she said it would be wrong to say to her daughter never to accept anything off a Pakistani man she didn't know, she should never accept anything off any man she didn't know. If you're only looking for Pakistani groomers, all the other groomers slip by unnoticed.
In my teen years and twenties- it was not unusual to wander into the local kebab shop post drinking session at uni / during ones time in TA lol )to see a fit bird or birds in tears, make up everywhere inside being consoled or asking for one of the lads who worked in there.

Likewise when clubbing in Broad Street - heard that the local young lasses were on about being best buds with some of the Asian lads especially taxi drivers..

Just saying...

cheers
 

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