Police gone soft?

Bodenplatte

Old-Salt
Leaving aside the fact that the majority of your police really don't want to carry pistols, you obviously have had little experience of civilian armed confrontation in the UK or elsewhere.
Had a bit.

You ?

Read up on the Tottenham Outrage.
Here if you have Telegraph access, (I don't,) or here if you have access to Arrse, I do.
I first became aware of the Tottenham Outrage twenty-odd years ago. I was researching for a book I was writing, and made contact with the curator of the Black Museum. He was quite excited because one of the pistols used by the robbers (a Bergmann I think) had recently turned up,anonymously packed as these things sometimes do. He forwarded me some contemporary reports. It's instructive that the only weapons the police had in the nearby station were cutlasses, and that they had to borrow a couple of pistols from bystanders


Complete nonsense, have you gone through any of the Hungerford reports ?
Yes. In some detail. As I recall, Ryan used his Chinese AK to shoot poor Bretherton, using surplus Russian military ammunition. The jackets stripped off the bullets as they went through the car body but the steel penetrator cores were what inflicted the fatal injuries. It's impossible to know how things might have been different if Bretherton had been armed, but it couldn't have been worse. There was delay in arriving by the Thames Valley ARG, and confusion as to whether Wiltshire or Thames Valley should be handling things, partially because Ryan had started killing in Savernake Forest near Marlborough.

Were you even born in 1987 ?
 

Bodenplatte

Old-Salt
Off the top of my head, was the 100 year secrecy rule applied to Dunblane?
Seemed to ring a bell.
Yes. There were all sorts of allegations about Freemasonry, and connections between Hamilton and Scottish politicians. True or not ? I don'y know.
A shooting organisation called SAGBNI (Sportsmans Association of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) tried various methods of eliciting information using the shooting magazine "Gun Mart" as their mouthpiece - they were particularly upset as they represented pistol target shooters who lost not only their sport, but their livelihoods in some cases when short firearms were prohibited in the aftermath of Dunblane by virtue of the 1996 Firearms (Amendment) Act No 2.


EDIT: This will give some sort of idea about the level of debate in some quarters at the time of the Dunblane shootings . . . . . make of it what you will.
 
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Yes. There were all sorts of allegations about Freemasonry, and connections between Hamilton and Scottish politicians. True or not ? I don'y know.
A shooting organisation called SAGBNI (Sportsmans Association of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) tried various methods of eliciting information using the shooting magazine "Gun Mart" as their mouthpiece - they were particularly upset as they represented pistol target shooters who lost not only their sport, but their livelihoods in some cases when short firearms were prohibited in the aftermath of Dunblane by virtue of the 1996 Firearms (Amendment) Act No 2.


EDIT: This will give some sort of idea about the level of debate in some quarters at the time of the Dunblane shootings . . . . . make of it what you will.
Hamilton was allegedly known to threaten with a shotgun. No action taken. Police failure.
 

How many of you even remember PC Lawrence Brown murdered in Pownall Road in Hackney in 1990. Lured to a carpark by a bogus 999 call and murdered in cold blood. Dunno if a firearm would have saved him or not, but I do know that responding officers including authorised shots were not given approval to book out firearms.
 

How many of you even remember PC Lawrence Brown murdered in Pownall Road in Hackney in 1990. Lured to a carpark by a bogus 999 call and murdered in cold blood. Dunno if a firearm would have saved him or not, but I do know that responding officers including authorised shots were not given approval to book out firearms.
A firearm is no get out of jail free card,it can cause more problems than solutions, honestly
 
My colleague who was stabbed several times about 6 weeks ago, would probably have appreciated it.

You aren’t the ones who have to go to work everyday with minimal protection and face an unknown threat. .So forgive if I don’t immediately think about your needs
Neither do you have to. Nobody conscripted you. Get a job at Wilko, selling Yakuza sleeves if you don't like it.

Tail wagging dog here- we have had a certain style of police for a long time. I genuinely don't think it is up to the polics to tell the rest of us how we should be policed.

It's up to us to tell you.

. The Government of the last 10 years is responsible for the loss of 21,000 cops and a similar number of staff, take that up with your local MP.

I already have. But he's Labour so the Government will ignore him twice as hard as they ignore everyone else in the 60-ish% of the population who didn't vote for them.

I agree that the last few Governments have done to the police what they're trying to do to all public services, and it's not right.
 
You the public should be supporting the police,they have few resources,few officer's, but still there when you need them,if there is enough to go around,or better still join them and make a difference yourself
I'm very much a supporter of the police (except North Wales the dodgy scruffy incompetent bastards). And I don't want all of them routinely armed.

I support the NHS and the fire brigade too, there's only so many hours in the week, which should I join?

Have a dumb.
 
Neither do you have to. Nobody conscripted you. Get a job at Wilko, selling Yakuza sleeves if you don't like it.

Tail wagging dog here- we have had a certain style of police for a long time. I genuinely don't think it is up to the polics to tell the rest of us how we should be policed.

It's up to us to tell you.




I already have. But he's Labour so the Government will ignore him twice as hard as they ignore everyone else in the 60-ish% of the population who didn't vote for them.

I agree that the last few Governments have done to the police what they're trying to do to all public services, and it's not right.
Not a problem when we're talking about legally held firearms. Statistically they don't figure in crime at all.

And by the way, the police are civilians.
And where do most of criminal firearms come from stolen from joe civilian
 

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