Police gone soft?

@Boumer

If there is serious public disorder, riots and stuff, as a result of Brexit happening, or not happening, would Taser be a useful defensive tool ?
I can see just how effective it is when a dangerous individual needs stopping. But in a riot situation ? And how many 'rounds' are you going to get issued ?
it is not really a tool for stuff like that, and I respectfully suggest no guvnor is going to hurt their promotion authorising baton rounds to be fired on the mainland in such scenario either.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer

Some decent footage of the type of person who can turn very quickly. This is a PCSO as well, so limited PPE to defend themselves with.
A lot of self-restraint shown by the PSCO there.
I suspect many on this site might have been tempted to utilise slightly more pain compliance were they in a similar situation.
 
@Boumer

If there is serious public disorder, riots and stuff, as a result of Brexit happening, or not happening, would Taser be a useful defensive tool ?
I can see just how effective it is when a dangerous individual needs stopping. But in a riot situation ? And how many 'rounds' are you going to get issued ?
Taser is not a large scale public order item of kit, it’s ineffective against a crowd of people and isn’t a tactic that is taught.
 
A lot of self-restraint shown by the PSCO there.
I suspect many on this site might have been tempted to utilise slightly more pain compliance were they in a similar situation.
I agree, and he would have been justified. However I think there is a culture of dread amongst officers that it will be seen as excessive.
 
Little changes, I used to refer to this.

No one will ever use "pain compliance" techniques.

Pressure compliance, yes. Stand up in court and say "Pain Compliance" and see what happens....
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Little changes, I used to refer to this.
Seen it before, but WTF was the suspect thinking ?
He'd take a hostage and get a jet out of the place, or just a full blown last stand ?

No one will ever use "pain compliance" techniques.

Pressure compliance, yes. Stand up in court and say "Pain Compliance" and see what happens....
Sorry, slip of the tongue.
Er, finger.
No, it was autocorrect !
 
it is not really a tool for stuff like that, and I respectfully suggest no guvnor is going to hurt their promotion authorising baton rounds to be fired on the mainland in such scenario either.
I meant spare ammunition, shots, for the Taser, just unfamiliar with the Technology.
Zaps ? Refills ?
I was surprised to learn that they can be reloaded in a very few seconds. But that isn't much use if you only get issued a couple of ________ in a riot situation.
 
I meant spare ammunition, shots, for the Taser, just unfamiliar with the Technology.
Zaps ? Refills ?
I was surprised to learn that they can be reloaded in a very few seconds. But that isn't much use if you only get issued a couple of ________ in a riot situation.
That is not what they are designed for, or how the weapon is used tactically either.

In riots, you'll be back to the good old Shield and Stick.
 
Seen it before, but WTF was the suspect thinking ?
He'd take a hostage and get a jet out of the place, or just a full blown last stand ?
I was told that it was in a southern city, and having been brought to the attention of the officer he'd been found with a blade on him and arrested already.

In custody he then (for whatever reason) went for his other blade which had not been detected by searching. Fortunately the officer's flinch response save him.

On an aside, this is why I like Krav Maga. Building on an accelerating the natural response, demonstrated in this classic photo of IDF paratroopers drilling the system.



Given the nature of policing, I'd suggest the suspect was suffering mental health or other issues.
Given what I saw coming in through the custody doors or on 999 calls, and was why I suspected everyone I dealt with was carrying at least a knife or blade.
 
I meant spare ammunition, shots, for the Taser, just unfamiliar with the Technology.
Zaps ? Refills ?
I was surprised to learn that they can be reloaded in a very few seconds. But that isn't much use if you only get issued a couple of ________ in a riot situation.
Good demsonstration of TASER employment, but you may notice at least two deployments are required. Probably the puffer jacket that prevented the barbs of one discharge functioning.

It is not Dr Spock's phaser, and does fail to stop.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer

Some decent footage of the type of person who can turn very quickly. This is a PCSO as well, so limited PPE to defend themselves with.
Well he shouldn’t have let the person detained rummage around in his bag.
Hopefully he has learned a lesson there.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
That description doesn't really match up with the videos from the event.
On the contrary, it matches rather well.

In the video clip you have chosen baton strikes to head level by officers in the first, second and third ranks* are evident as are head wounds on those that have been struck.

With regard to age, I was only going by the injured I saw personally.

It's possible that some offrs feel able or even obliged to go weapons free when their identities are more hidden in situations such as these, and striking those not posing a threat is a safer option.
More, (or even some,) thought by those with shiny headdress to the method of deployment might have stopped or at least delayed the ugly scenes.


* in so far as we can speak of ranks in a fluid and active public order incident.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Good demsonstration of TASER employment, but you may notice at least two deployments are required. Probably the puffer jacket that prevented the barbs of one discharge functioning.

It is not Dr Spock's phaser, and does fail to stop.
I don't know how the training is given now, but is the tgt still just centre of mass, and shots below the belt are still only accidental ?
 
I don't know how the training is given now, but is the tgt still just centre of mass, and shots below the belt are still only accidental ?
The point of aim has to be at centre of mass, as the barbs spread during flight. More the range the more the distance between barbs on target, and both have to hit and attach for the weapon to arch and function.

Do remember, I never carried TASER and so I am going off my training to work with equipped officers.

Though on one job where we were only allowed to enter with taser, the officers equipped with it were such a bunch of wet fish - I kicked the door in and just made it clear anyone who didn't show me their hands was getting battered. Problem sorted.

Helps to have some experience before getting all the new toys, I find.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
What power does he have to stop him? Single crewed with no handcuffs.
Well if he has the power to detain him he can just move the bag out of harms way, common sense really. He’s lucky he didn’t pull out a gun or a really nice big carving knife. I would have thought that in today’s climate personal safety was paramount.
So to answer your question on what power? The PCSO has stopped and detained him, when he’s detained you have a duty of care, stop him injuring himself or others you stop him from doing anything that could lead to what happened.
I dare say that video will be featuring in future officer safety training.
 
On the contrary, it matches rather well.

In the video clip you have chosen baton strikes to head level by officers in the first, second and third ranks* are evident as are head wounds on those that have been struck.

With regard to age, I was only going by the injured I saw personally.

It's possible that some offrs feel able or even obliged to go weapons free when their identities are more hidden in situations such as these, and striking those not posing a threat is a safer option.
More, (or even some,) thought by those with shiny headdress to the method of deployment might have stopped or at least delayed the ugly scenes.


* in so far as we can speak of ranks in a fluid and active public order incident.
The police start off behind a barrier. The only people getting hit at the start are those coming forward to attack the police and tear down the barrier. Later in the incident where the barrier is gone, that would appear to be because 'protesters' have pulled then away to try and break through the police line. None of that would be my definition of 'posing no threat what so ever'.

Head strikes are not illegal. They can be a perfectly legitimate strike, you just have to be able to justify their use in the circumstances.
 
Good demsonstration of TASER employment, but you may notice at least two deployments are required. Probably the puffer jacket that prevented the barbs of one discharge functioning.

It is not Dr Spock's phaser, and does fail to stop.
Nothing a cavalry sabre couldn’t have resolved more safely!
 
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