Police gone soft?

The reason they introduced degrees was because more senior roles in nursing required more education. You're not getting to be a clinical nurse manager or theatre nurse these days without a degree level of education. The days of nurses being treated as low paid ward skivvies are well over. Young nurses got fed up being treated like dirt by admin and doctors and huge numbers left nursing. A degree brings more opportunities and more respect.
Huge numbers left in the days before degrees according to Mrs R - she reckons at least half her set quit after they qualified, mostly to get married and have kids. But with their nursing qualification so they could go back to it.

As for degrees required at senior level, most of her nurse-y mates don’t have degrees, have no intention of getting a degree and they’re all Band 8 or the equivalent. More senior than that and you’d think all nurses are male. :)
 

anglo

LE
The reason they introduced degrees was because more senior roles in nursing required more education. You're not getting to be a clinical nurse manager or theatre nurse these days without a degree level of education. The days of nurses being treated as low paid ward skivvies are well over. Young nurses got fed up being treated like dirt by admin and doctors and huge numbers left nursing. A degree brings more opportunities and more respect.
My sister didn't have a degree, and she was a theatre nurse, nurses could train to the level they wanted to work at
 

StormsInAfrica

War Hero
Yes, and you have to watch the furry f*ckers because when they are in bite mode they will take a bite out of the goodies as well. I.E - me. Never got bitten by one but it was a close run thing. Always stayed close to the handler or did a Sir Clive and locked myself in my patrol car.

I forget the name of the poster, but he had some genuinely hilarious tales of his sniffer dog in NI. I can’t find the thread now where he details their escapades sadly. He shares an encounter of a posting to a prison and encountering various Alsatians of a frenetic nature.
 
I forget the name of the poster, but he had some genuinely hilarious tales of his sniffer dog in NI. I can’t find the thread now where he details their escapades sadly. He shares an encounter of a posting to a prison and encountering various Alsatians of a frenetic nature.
You would be thinking of Auld Sapper and his hound of hell Stumpy. I've put a link to the thread below

Link to Thread
 
The reason they introduced degrees was because more senior roles in nursing required more education. You're not getting to be a clinical nurse manager or theatre nurse these days without a degree level of education. The days of nurses being treated as low paid ward skivvies are well over. Young nurses got fed up being treated like dirt by admin and doctors and huge numbers left nursing. A degree brings more opportunities and more respect.
That's a nonsense...
My DiL recently qualified as a Midwife. After 3 years of training she now has an enormous Uni/accommodation debt hanging around her neck.

For much of the last 2 years the course has been almost entirely 'on the job training' on the hospital Wards as class based training on campus was restricted due to Covid.. ...y'know, 'on the job education', like training a Midwife used to be.

Except back then a trainee nurse/midwife would get some form of salary (even if it was a pittance). The modern way is preferred by hospital management as they get these trainee midwives working on shift in the Wards for free for 3 years - in fact the trainees are in effect having to pay for the privilege of working in the hospital. There have been many times when she has wanted to jack it in and get a job elsewhere as the debts mounted (she doesn't have parents who are able to be Bank of Mum & Dad) and there's no real hope of squirreling some savings away for a house or flat deposit on her starting salary with that additional debt millstone...

Meanwhile, my daughter left school without going to Uni (the only one of her large group of friends not to do so). She applied herself in the workplace when she wasn't really that focussed at school (preferred to be the class clown at school) and has gone from job to job with promotions all the way and she's now a lead programme officer at AWE and has Graduates who she mentors and is an example to others that you don't need a paper certificate in certain roles if you have people skills and a drive to earn (as well as learn). She has no Uni debt. She has a 3 bed house and a £70k salary. She's well ahead of her friends who went the Uni route...
 
The reason they introduced degrees was because more senior roles in nursing required more education. You're not getting to be a clinical nurse manager or theatre nurse these days without a degree level of education. The days of nurses being treated as low paid ward skivvies are well over. Young nurses got fed up being treated like dirt by admin and doctors and huge numbers left nursing. A degree brings more opportunities and more respect.
and if you want one of them you go find yourself a cheaper Health Care Assistant instead
 
They also ruined Nursing with this degree shite, a lot of women would take up nursing,
but they would never get a degree, so, they look else where for a job.
In Nursing the most important skill is 'people skills' and that can't be taught.
These days you can have degree qualified nurses on the Ward who have got the bedside manner of a nurse at Auschwitz. The 3 year commitment to get a degree, with no income and just a huge debt, puts off some of those people who have the necessary people skills for nursing roles... it's a huge error to force this Uni route on Nursing/Midwifery.

Anyway... back to the police discussion....
 
In Nursing the most important skill is 'people skills' and that can't be taught.
These days you can have degree qualified nurses on the Ward who have got the bedside manner of a nurse at Auschwitz. The 3 year commitment to get a degree, with no income and just a huge debt, puts off some of those people who have the necessary people skills for nursing roles... it's a huge error to force this Uni route on Nursing/Midwifery.

Anyway... back to the police discussion....
I also tend to think of police out in the world needing people skills, or at least an antenna for things about to go pear shaped?

Friend of mine joined the police in her 30’s, feeling old compared to the grads, but a police officer friend of my wife said she was just what the job needed - experience, maturity and some life skills. And learnt without the cynicism that came with learning those life skills in the police.
 

StormsInAfrica

War Hero
That's a nonsense...
My DiL recently qualified as a Midwife. After 3 years of training she now has an enormous Uni/accommodation debt hanging around her neck.

For much of the last 2 years the course has been almost entirely 'on the job training' on the hospital Wards as class based training on campus was restricted due to Covid.. ...y'know, 'on the job education', like training a Midwife used to be.

Except back then a trainee nurse/midwife would get some form of salary (even if it was a pittance). The modern way is preferred by hospital management as they get these trainee midwives working on shift in the Wards for free for 3 years - in fact the trainees are in effect having to pay for the privilege of working in the hospital. There have been many times when she has wanted to jack it in and get a job elsewhere as the debts mounted (she doesn't have parents who are able to be Bank of Mum & Dad) and there's no real hope of squirreling some savings away for a house or flat deposit on her starting salary with that additional debt millstone...

Meanwhile, my daughter left school without going to Uni (the only one of her large group of friends not to do so). She applied herself in the workplace when she wasn't really that focussed at school (preferred to be the class clown at school) and has gone from job to job with promotions all the way and she's now a lead programme officer at AWE and has Graduates who she mentors and is an example to others that you don't need a paper certificate in certain roles if you have people skills and a drive to earn (as well as learn). She has no Uni debt. She has a 3 bed house and a £70k salary. She's well ahead of her friends who went the Uni route...
You might say she went nuclear.

I’ll get my coat.
 
In Nursing the most important skill is 'people skills' and that can't be taught.
These days you can have degree qualified nurses on the Ward who have got the bedside manner of a nurse at Auschwitz. The 3 year commitment to get a degree, with no income and just a huge debt, puts off some of those people who have the necessary people skills for nursing roles... it's a huge error to force this Uni route on Nursing/Midwifery.

Anyway... back to the police discussion....
Is it? Or is it being able to calculate a drug dose, dilute it appropriately & set up an infusion pump so you don't kill someone with, eg, an overdose of insulin?

Or are they both important, which is why a nursing degree is a 50/50 mix of academic study & work-place learning?
 
The buggers go for the bollocks once they figure out that males get protective about them.

Aww, they just want to be friends!

750022f25ad077e567ce0a3089907b63--trainer-movies.jpg
 
Is it? Or is it being able to calculate a drug dose, dilute it appropriately & set up an infusion pump so you don't kill someone with, eg, an overdose of insulin?

Or are they both important, which is why a nursing degree is a 50/50 mix of academic study & work-place learning?
Yeah yeah, whatever... my comment was more regarding my daughter-in-law and her chosen career path as a midwife rather than as a pure 'nurse'... okay make that 'an important skill is people skills', rather than 'the most important'.... but it doesn't need a 3 year commitment and dragging people into debt in certain medical roles such as midwife.

Arguably those students who can't do basic drug dose calculations would be sifted out from the off in Year 1. People skills, bedside manner and an ability to put expectant mothers at ease in the delivery suite counts for a hell of a lot ... along with having small hands for getting elbow deep in the business end of delivery..

These last 2 years hasn't been anywhere near 50/50 study and workplace learning anyway for her, yet she's still facing the full Uni charge
 
Quitting because it suddenly dawned on them that the job involves "working weekends and nights" How are these people not weeded out at preselection interviews?
This crap was happening more and more in Trumpton before I left.
Recruits who were manifestly unsuitable for the job or others who, as soon as they’d finished their probation, had decided that they’d had enough of riding the trucks and were looking to get promoted into roles more suited to a sybaritic lifestyle. Coincidentally, the downturn in applicant standards corresponded with the utter and abject cretins in HR completely overseeing the application criteria.
 
Yeah yeah, whatever... my comment was more regarding my daughter-in-law and her chosen career path as a midwife rather than as a pure 'nurse'... okay make that 'an important skill is people skills', rather than 'the most important'.... but it doesn't need a 3 year commitment and dragging people into debt in certain medical roles such as midwife.

Arguably those students who can't do basic drug dose calculations would be sifted out from the off in Year 1. People skills, bedside manner and an ability to put expectant mothers at ease in the delivery suite counts for a hell of a lot ... along with having small hands for getting elbow deep in the business end of delivery..

These last 2 years hasn't been anywhere near 50/50 study and workplace learning anyway for her, yet she's still facing the full Uni charge

As an FYI the maths calculations for that is tested in the pre-course testing. The first thing you are then practically tested on are clinical skills, knowing how to prepare an aseptic field for clean working, take blood pressures, and stick needles in people. Then more in depth at the end of the first year when dosing, anatomy, physiology, and terminology are thrown at you in a 3 hour sit down exam. Other than that year one is about classroom work, emptying bedpans, and checking the welfare of patients, unless you have a good on ward tutor who will put you through more.

In support of your daughter in law; it should be like it was a few years ago when the govt paid all the fees and gave a bursary for low income applicants. Its not as if they get rock star salaries in the NHS.
 

anglo

LE
shame the actual evidence says otherwise ref Degrees and Nursing

This is from 2019, but I reckon nothing as changed since then,

Previous research has shown students who leave their courses blame reasons such as finances, academic issues, placement quality, workload and lack of support.
In 2017, the government replaced the NHS bursary for nursing students in England with a tuition fees and loans system, which experts say has hit students in the pocket.

Nursing students are still dropping out in worrying numbers | The Health Foundation

Analysis by Nursing Standard and the Health Foundation shows that despite political pledges to tackle the issue, students are still dropping out in worrying numbers
www.health.org.uk

Would you give the source of your "actual evidence"
 
This is from 2019, but I reckon nothing as changed since then,

Previous research has shown students who leave their courses blame reasons such as finances, academic issues, placement quality, workload and lack of support.
In 2017, the government replaced the NHS bursary for nursing students in England with a tuition fees and loans system, which experts say has hit students in the pocket.

Nursing students are still dropping out in worrying numbers | The Health Foundation

Analysis by Nursing Standard and the Health Foundation shows that despite political pledges to tackle the issue, students are still dropping out in worrying numbers
www.health.org.uk

Would you give the source of your "actual evidence"
hmmm

"students who began three-year degrees due to finish in 2018, a total of 4,695 left their courses early or suspended their studies."

"In 2017, the government replaced the NHS bursary for nursing students in England with a tuition fees and loans system"

So only the final year faced tuition fees (assuming there wen't grandfather rights for them to keep the bursary). So a chunk of the leavers did so before tuition fees were a thing - although no doubt some dropped out at the end of Year 2 to avoid paying them.

Is that attrition rate higher or lower than before?

"This gives an average attrition rate of 24.0% in the UK. The attrition rates for courses finishing in 2017 stood at 24.8%"

So, from an unreliably small number of data points, Tuition fees have increased the rate of successful completion of nursing degrees. increased the rate by increased the drop out rate by 0.8%


ETA: that drop out rate seems to have been fairly consistent over the past decade

"Attempts to address the issue over the past 10 years appear to have failed. The magazine Nursing Standard, which obtained the student data jointly with the Health Foundation, said its 2006 investigation found the attrition rate was 24.8%; today it was still 24%." (2018)

 
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Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Reading some of the posts on nursing/midwives I can’t believe they don’t get paid during training, even apprentices get paid, not a lot but it’s better than a poke in the eye with a stick.
Nurses even have to pay each year to renew their registration, well last time I spoke to a nurse they did.
I bet a pound to a piece of the proverbial that the Health Secretary and Boris are complete unaware of this fiasco.
Christ even as a copper at Hendon I got paid and that was the easiest money I have earned in my life, mind you it changed a bit when I joined Division.
 
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