Police firearms ND stats

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by muhandis89, Jul 16, 2010.

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  1. What's your definition of abnormal ?
    In the comments under the article it says that these incidents account for 0.11% of accidents ie 7 incidents out of 6300 officers who are carrying.
  2. I'll give it 10mins tops before our recident expert Police Firearms Instructor and 12 years plenty decorated USMC veteran from Dublin, CA starts his rant...
  3. Or to look at it another way, remove the blip between 2006 and 2007, and you have two injuries in a six year period, which is comparable to the four injuries in the 12 year period preceding 2003.

    Either the writer of this article doesn't really understand statistics, and how they should be interpreted, or is deliberately sensationalising this to create a story where none exists.
  4. Speaking as an uninformed civvy those figures don't sound bad. Seven "accidents" in seven years from a total of 6,700 firearms officers. so taking that as an average of one incident a year over the period actually works out at 0.01%
  5. I remember hearing with astonishemnt, the circumstances leading to the death of a Firearms Copper in ?Manchester.

    They where practising vehicle immobilisation drillss, which involves putting 12-bore solid shot through the engine black. This was being done live; one Policeman driving, one Policeman with 12-bore.

    It seems that the driver stuck his hand out of the window and waved it at the guy with the shotgun, who "instinctively" shot him.

  6. These are the NDs that have caused injuries, but how many NDs in total.

    We should not be so quick to through stones as I am sure we can all tell stories of interesting weapon handling.
  7. Whilst not decrying from poor drills, please at least quote the article you link to correctly.
  8. Anyone got a link to military ND's? (Ones that actually get reported.) :)
  9. The London Metro take on the same story.
    Police shot cow 12 times, firearm blunders figures reveal | Metro.co.uk

    "Police shot a runaway cow 12 times in a bungled attempt to kill it – just one of dozens of firearms blunders revealed on Thursday.

    A constable and an acting sergeant blasted the beast eight times with a rifle and four times with a shotgun in what police called a ‘humane destruction’ on a school playing field.

    They said it was hard to hit the target because of ‘a combination of wind speed, distance and type of gun used’.

    Animal behaviour expert Dr Roger Mugford said their attempts appeared to be ‘pretty incompetent’.

    He added: ‘I’ve regrettably had to despatch cows and sheep before. A shotgun blast from close range to the forehead reliably kills with one shot.’

    The cow shooting was one of 180 occasions that police firearms have been used to destroy wounded or dangerous animals in the past three years, figures released under the Freedom of Information Act have shown. Officers have also accidentally discharged their weapons 110 times since January 2007 – almost four times as often as when confronted with actual threats.
    .The cow had to be put down after it charged a police officer and a woman with a baby in Stockton-on-Tees in August last year.

    Chief Insp Ted Allen, from Cleveland Police, said: ‘It was contained on the school field, but could still have got out. Our biggest concern was for the safety of the public from the animal and from our bullets.’

    In other cases revealed on Thursday, a diplomatic protection officer shot himself in the leg getting into a car in September 2007 and another officer hit his own hand while cleaning a weapon at Wiltshire police HQ in July 2008.

    One Northern Ireland officer managed to blast a hole through a hot water tank at a Co Down home in April 2007.

    A marksman trying to shoot a dangerous dog fired through the window of a Birmingham house, smashing a cupboard and ripping a football shirt in 2008. In Bedfordshire, an officer ‘accidentally fired a Taser 26 times into a ballistic bag’ at an armoury in December last year.

    The Association of Chief Police Off*icers said accidents were a cause for concern but firearms training in Britain was ‘among the best in the world’.

    Six people have been shot dead by police in the past three years and one firearms bungle killed an officer during a training exercise."

    I can sort of understand the fun in brassing up a cow at a school ("Watch this, Kiddies!Get in our way when you're grown up, and you can get some of this!"), but just what kind of Taser allows you to ND 26 times? Do they come in Gatling? Can I have one?

  10. And your point is?
    Whether it was once or 26 times it was still an ND!
  11. I tried to bite my tongue over this but couldn't. The Police carry guns, the Police have ND,s. Get over it. The Military carry guns the military have ND,s get over it. In both jobs even the training can be dangerous. But we are training to deal with life threatening situations. Beyond us there is no one else to help in peace with the Police in war with the military. Please do not rise to the bait of Cnut reporters, politicians and lefty rabble rousers, the most dangerous thing most of them will ever do is sharpen a pencil ( Even war reporters can go home when they want) So yes it is bad when they happen and there will always be lessons to learnt but ND's are like the Chinese they will never be stopped.
  12. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

    I see so much evidence from all media types that these people really don't have a ****ing clue what they are talking about 99% of the time. News readers especially, reading from teleprompt and you an see from the vacant expressions they probably could even repeat back to you what they have just said.
    What started as mild amusement on my behalf has now turned to vexation as I realised that I had fallen into the mong trap of trusting news media to be A. credible and B. honest when in fact they are oft times neither. My own bloody fault without doubt for following the herd. However no more!

    so the X26 tazer story just becomes another example of either negligence or incompetence. Personally I'd like to see the buggers more heavily regulated or infact regulated at all.
  13. Been watching the series " Steven Seagal Lawman " quite an amazing guy, briefly he has been a real life volunteer police officer/sherrif in Louisiana for over 20 years, in this particular episode he was coaching a fellow officer to pass his qualification on pistol. Seagal gave an amazing demonstration of his own prowess with various pistols, as well as teaching self defence techniques he comes across as a very talented man. Maybe he could come over here. Having read the article though i think it is simply a journalistic ploy to gain readers, those stat's are pretty good. As to military N.D.statistics i have not seen any published for public consumption, interestingly though during the Northern Ireland shindig, Armoured Corps regiment (dismounted ) coming through NITAT had very few NDs, one regiment QOH served four tours as infantry without a single ND, it would be interesting to see military comparisons, freedom of info perhaps?
  14. /facepalm Yeah... doorknobs journalists with zero understanding of firearms it seems. Sure, we'd all love for there to be no accidents at all but that is not possible with humans involved no matter how well trained.