Police fire arms

#1
Not sure if this is the right forum or if this has been don before but here goes.

I have just been over on closeprotectionworld.com and in there they have an armed cnnie police bit. Now they are getting relly excited about being issued M4, HK36 and steyer assault rifles.

Am I the only one that thinks these weapons are not really appropriate for the poilice in built up areas?

Discuss
 
#2
It's all in the, y'know, "Commit a crime and we'll shoot your whole family and friends by mistake" campaign. Have you not heard of it?
It might "work" where the public is law abiding, but elsewhere...
 
#4
doc53 said:
Not sure if this is the right forum or if this has been don before but here goes.

I have just been over on closeprotectionworld.com and in there they have an armed cnnie police bit. Now they are getting relly excited about being issued M4, HK36 and steyer assault rifles.

Am I the only one that thinks these weapons are not really appropriate for the poilice in built up areas?

Discuss
The Armed police at LHR use 5.56 (don't know the name of the rifle but its one with clear magazines!) and they don't seem to think that flinging that around an airport is a problem. And don't forget, they've also got CS, Tasers, GBFO angry dogs and Pistols as well.

T C
 
#5
doc53 said:
Not sure if this is the right forum or if this has been don before but here goes.

I have just been over on closeprotectionworld.com and in there they have an armed cnnie police bit. Now they are getting relly excited about being issued M4, HK36 and steyer assault rifles.

Am I the only one that thinks these weapons are not really appropriate for the poilice in built up areas?

Discuss
Not all crime is committed in built up areas, (You not seen Hot Fuzz.) I'm sure they have other arms and ammunition suited for slotting Brazilian electricians in built up areas.
 
#6
Seriously though, and I dom't want all police without guns but thus kit is really not appropriate for law enforcement in urban areas.

Only the other day at birmingham airport I saw an armed female WPC who was smaller tan the fckuing gun she was carrying.

I can hear the prosecution now.

"so you shot the suspect"
"yep"
"and the orphanage he was in front of"
"yep"

I am sure you can see where this is going.
 
#7
The_Cheat said:
doc53 said:
Not sure if this is the right forum or if this has been don before but here goes.

I have just been over on closeprotectionworld.com and in there they have an armed cnnie police bit. Now they are getting relly excited about being issued M4, HK36 and steyer assault rifles.

Am I the only one that thinks these weapons are not really appropriate for the poilice in built up areas?

Discuss
The Armed police at LHR use 5.56 (don't know the name of the rifle but its one with clear magazines!) and they don't seem to think that flinging that around an airport is a problem. And don't forget, they've also got CS, Tasers, GBFO angry dogs and Pistols as well.

T C
Aug Styr?
 
#8
Werewolf said:
The_Cheat said:
The Armed police at LHR use 5.56 (don't know the name of the rifle but its one with clear magazines!) and they don't seem to think that flinging that around an airport is a problem. And don't forget, they've also got CS, Tasers, GBFO angry dogs and Pistols as well.

T C
Aug Styr?
Found it, HK G36. Looks cool!

T C

Edit to add- Can you post the article / source of this excitement? It looks like other Forces already have these weapons any way.

T C
 
#9
I remember back in 1985 a police officer from the very rural market town where our Air Cadet unit was came to show us some of their weapons and talk about his job. He had an M16 in his bag of goodies.
 
#10
The_Cheat said:
Werewolf said:
The_Cheat said:
The Armed police at LHR use 5.56 (don't know the name of the rifle but its one with clear magazines!) and they don't seem to think that flinging that around an airport is a problem. And don't forget, they've also got CS, Tasers, GBFO angry dogs and Pistols as well.

T C
Aug Styr?
Found it, HK G36. Looks cool!
T C

Edit to add- Can you post the article / source of this excitement? It looks like other Forces already have these weapons any way.

T C
Want that one! :drool:
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#11
The firearms team in the force I served in went OTT. When I started in it,we had Browning 9mm, Enfield Enforcer and double barrel shotguns.
Before I left, team were in black nomex, carried MP5, with 6, count' em 6 mags, Glock !0 with 4 mags, and GBFO knives strapped upside down on webbing. And small randall knife in boot sheath. Also Used a Remington 7mm as long gun.
Touch of overkill on ammo, perhaps.
Oh, and Franchi SPAS shotguns.
 
#12
old_fat_and_hairy said:
The firearms team in the force I served in went OTT. When I started in it,we had Browning 9mm, Enfield Enforcer and double barrel shotguns.
Before I left, team were in black nomex, carried MP5, with 6, count' em 6 mags, Glock !0 with 4 mags, and GBFO knives strapped upside down on webbing. And small randall knife in boot sheath. Also Used a Remington 7mm as long gun.
Touch of overkill on ammo, perhaps.
Oh, and Franchi SPAS shotguns.
I remember a former senior firearms officer, Colin Greenwood, criticising the police for buying exotic weaponry and stating there was no need for it because the weapons already issued were perfectly adequate, ergo, they were wasting taxpayers' money. He also mentioned at least one force buying a .458 winchester rifle just in case an elephant escaped from a zoo as an example.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#13
mac1 said:
old_fat_and_hairy said:
The firearms team in the force I served in went OTT. When I started in it,we had Browning 9mm, Enfield Enforcer and double barrel shotguns.
Before I left, team were in black nomex, carried MP5, with 6, count' em 6 mags, Glock !0 with 4 mags, and GBFO knives strapped upside down on webbing. And small randall knife in boot sheath. Also Used a Remington 7mm as long gun.
Touch of overkill on ammo, perhaps.
Oh, and Franchi SPAS shotguns.
I remember a former senior firearms officer, Colin Greenwood, criticising the police for buying exotic weaponry and stating there was no need for it because the weapons already issued were perfectly adequate, ergo, they were wasting taxpayers' money. He also mentioned at least one force buying a .458 winchester rifle just in case an elephant escaped from a zoo as an example.
Colin Greenwood! A name from the past. He was part of my training team. Good bloke, very switched on. Our force had a sawn off side by side and solid shot, we used it when bulls escaped from cattle market.
 
#14
old_fat_and_hairy said:
mac1 said:
old_fat_and_hairy said:
The firearms team in the force I served in went OTT. When I started in it,we had Browning 9mm, Enfield Enforcer and double barrel shotguns.
Before I left, team were in black nomex, carried MP5, with 6, count' em 6 mags, Glock !0 with 4 mags, and GBFO knives strapped upside down on webbing. And small randall knife in boot sheath. Also Used a Remington 7mm as long gun.
Touch of overkill on ammo, perhaps.
Oh, and Franchi SPAS shotguns.
I remember a former senior firearms officer, Colin Greenwood, criticising the police for buying exotic weaponry and stating there was no need for it because the weapons already issued were perfectly adequate, ergo, they were wasting taxpayers' money. He also mentioned at least one force buying a .458 winchester rifle just in case an elephant escaped from a zoo as an example.
Colin Greenwood! A name from the past. He was part of my training team. Good bloke, very switched on. Our force had a sawn off side by side and solid shot, we used it when bulls escaped from cattle market.
your force didn't buy the .458? ISTR also reading about Barretts being purchased.
 
#15
Cant blame the fire arm officers .Given the sligtest chance most squaddies would deck themselves out like commando given half a chance.
Whoever holds their budget on the other hand should say you dont need it .
 
#16
So it isn't just me who thinks that arming our civilian police to the teeth with the most sophisticated weaponry that tax money can buy is the worst idea since Gordon Brown's parents decided to abandon birth control?

I accept that we have to have some armed police in these times when every other word in the press concerns terrorism, but I have some concerns regarding the ability of some (note: not all) of these Nomex clad urban warriers' ability to handle anything more lethal than a truncheon and a whistle and with as much training as a Tesco's cashier.

After all, that Brazilian electrician didn't shoot himself, yet nobody was identified as responsible let alone punished for his outright murder. Same went for that guy carrying the chair leg, Derek Bennet, also shot by a gung ho plod whist walking back from the pub. Sadly the same anonymity wasn't afforded to Private Lee Clegg across the water, and I wonder why the police enjoy such immunity from criticism.

Until the police act transparently, are properly trained and fully accountable, I feel rather uncomfortable with them carrying anything more lethal than their sandwhiches whilst on our home turf. I was taught that a gun wasn't a fashion accessory for posers, it is a weapon.
 
#17
pyrogenica said:
So it isn't just me who thinks that arming our civilian police to the teeth with the most sophisticated weaponry that tax money can buy is the worst idea since Gordon Brown's parents decided to abandon birth control?

I accept that we have to have some armed police in these times when every other word in the press concerns terrorism, but I have some concerns regarding the ability of some (note: not all) of these Nomex clad urban warriers' ability to handle anything more lethal than a truncheon and a whistle and with as much training as a Tesco's cashier.

After all, that Brazilian electrician didn't shoot himself, yet nobody was identified as responsible let alone punished for his outright murder. Same went for that guy carrying the chair leg, Derek Bennet, also shot by a gung ho plod whist walking back from the pub. Sadly the same anonymity wasn't afforded to Private Lee Clegg across the water, and I wonder why the police enjoy such immunity from criticism.

Until the police act transparently, are properly trained and fully accountable, I feel rather uncomfortable with them carrying anything more lethal than their sandwhiches whilst on our home turf. I was taught that a gun wasn't a fashion accessory for posers, it is a weapon.
Mate , there's no 'until' about it. The response firearms are about as good as you are going to get. Don't forget there was feck all before Hungerford in deployment terms. It's better than nothing and they would all love to be 'Them' standard but it ain't going to happen. They don't take any old feckwit to bolster the first line of response.
I would fookin' Love to see what the results of decision 'shoots' figures would reveal across the board if all service personnel were put through it as the old bill are. As I've said before on other posts, until youv'e done it , and for real within the bounds of Police engagement criteria.. no fecker is entitled to make negative comments.
 
#18
Perhaps it is just my resignation at the inevitability that police need to be armed in the first place, perhaps it's just my frustration that some people seemed to be obsessed with the concept of firearms as a fashion accessory, I just hate to see any form of firearms on our own turf.

But, yes, if firearms need to be carried, then I'd far rather see them in the right hands than the wrong ones

(edit)
 
#19
doc53 said:
Not sure if this is the right forum or if this has been don before but here goes.

I have just been over on closeprotectionworld.com and in there they have an armed cnnie police bit. Now they are getting relly excited about being issued M4, HK36 and steyer assault rifles.

Am I the only one that thinks these weapons are not really appropriate for the poilice in built up areas?

Discuss
It rather depends on whether they hit something or not.

Surprisingly, a 5.56 softpoint round actually penetrates less in a human target than the issue 9mm softpoint round used by police in the UK, so in theory the 5.56 is better for avoiding shoot throughs.

If on the other hand the round misses, a 9mm will usually be spent after a few hundred metres and it's looping trajectory will probably have taken it into the ground. 5.56 however, will still be lethal at 800-1000m and shoots much flatter. On the other hand, 5.56 soft point will usually break up and shatter if it hits something hard, whereas 9mm is somewhat prone to ricochet. You pays your money and takes your choice...

It seems that many forces are now trading in their MP5s and upgrading to 5.56 carbines. The rationale would appear to be a desire to upgrade in view of the current terrorist threat.
 

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