Police condemn "Target Culture"

#1
I made mention of this on the Chris Tarrent dangerous spoon incident thread.

BBC link here

And we wonder why Police morale is low and public support for them is on the wain? Poor sods. We should remember that it is the faceless crowd in town to blame in setting the figures and not them.

Do we think it will get any better under the direction of the Ministry of Justice? I doubt it :evil:
 
#2
BBC News said:
... A man from Cheshire... was cautioned for being "found in possession of an egg with intent to throw"
That's going equipped surely! More importantly, though, what was he going to throw it at, if it was a politician they should have let him crack on.

BBC News said:
A child from Kent who was arrested for throwing cream buns at a bus
The child should be commended for throwing, rather than eating, the cream bun and and thus contributing to the fight against childhood obesity.

All the others, however, were asking for it :D
 
#3
AT LAST!

Well done the Police Federation for acknowledging what has become so obvious, and ridiculous, to the rest of us (as debated here numerous times).

We shall see what actually changes - but this is a very welcome step for the mob.
 
#4
Bat_Crab said:
BBC News said:
... A man from Cheshire... was cautioned for being "found in possession of an egg with intent to throw"
That's going equipped surely! More importantly, though, what was he going to throw it at, if it was a politician they should have let him crack on.

BBC News said:
A child from Kent who was arrested for throwing cream buns at a bus
The child should be commended for throwing, rather than eating, the cream bun and and thus contributing to the fight against childhood obesity.

All the others, however, were asking for it :D
Heard a better one.

Copper attends the scene of a suicide. A man has hanged himself.

On cutting down the body, a large knife is found in his pocket. Copper promptly logs a 'carrying an offensive weapon' crime report swiftly followed by 'offender apprehended', 'no further action 'cos offender is dead' and 'crime solved'.
 
#6
Here I thought our police were tied up with Mickey Mouse dictates...
 
#7
About bl00dy time the FED starting telling the public how it is.....What most people don't understand is in the present climate if a complaint is made no matter how petty if the bobby doesn't investigate it fully he/she will end up in the sh1t. Though sometimes a lack of experience/common sense is sadly missing from some young officers these days... :oops: :roll:
 
#8
yamkwak said:
About bl00dy time the FED starting telling the public how it is.....What most people don't understand is in the present climate if a complaint is made no matter how petty if the bobby doesn't investigate it fully he/she will end up in the sh1t. Though sometimes a lack of experience/common sense is sadly missing from some young officers these days... :oops: :roll:
Problem is mate i think the latest batches of new recruits (or Student officers as they're now known as) are so indoctrinated into the culture of crime everything they have no concept of common sense or discretion. :(
 

JINGO

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#10
The problem is running very deep right now, the Police as an organisation is in a self destructive spiral, recovery is i feel going to be very painful. The main obstacles to this recovery are the simple facts that the "student officers" are being tutored (doubt its even called that anymore perhaps they are facilitators or some sh1t now) by officers with as little as 2 1/2-3 years service who have come of age within this culture (oh for a canteen!). The tutors have done the minimum time on the streets before cruising into a cushy non confrontational berth and then pass on this lack of nous to the newbies.
This coupled with the sheer terror that the senior "management" feel at standing out from the pack and supporting the troops is sending us down the pan very quickly indeed.
Hence the alienation of the public and the lack of morale of the rest of us who used to be able to deal with things on a daily basis that now require the supervision of whole departments that have sprung into existence in the last few years (when i say supervision i dont mean in a leadership context i mean in an intrusive critical and obstructive way. You know who you are!). Lord knows where it will all end, it will get worse before it improves.
On a brighter note ive invented a new collective noun for a group of CSOs im calling them a"Confusion".
 
#11
Are any of you surprised by ANYTHING occuring in this sad country, rendered a laughing stock by the repulsive 'chancer' Bliar and his gang of smirking, sneering spivs ?

The aforesaid sh!t will not be missed - his annointed successor wil be AS BAD - despite the weasly words spouting these last couple of days.
 
#12
Dzerzhinskiey said:
Problem is mate i think the latest batches of new recruits (or Student officers as they're now known as) are so indoctrinated into the culture of crime everything they have no concept of common sense or discretion.
I've got to say I don't agree with that Seagull. Remember the probationers/student officers are trained by older hands who are still using their discretion in spite of the powers that be trying to take it away. I've got 19mths in and I can honestly say I can see the wood for the trees.

You must work in a better area than me. There's PCs just out of probation tutoring street duties. (That's two years teaching those below).

oh i've stuffed up the quotemark thing, but you get the idea
 
#13
Interesting

First, let me say that I agree with the tenet of the thread - that discretion should be a part of a policemans makeup.

How do some posters here square their support of this way of thinking when they also laud what Ray Mallon developed, in effect zero tolerance policing. Zero tolerance means nicking someone for WHATEVER they have done which is against the law - cream buning busses included
 
#14
Cops sent to a job are firstly concerned about, not getting a complaint, then dealing with the incident.
The government tell the cops to arrest and charge more criminals. They tell the courts, not to overcround the prison system.
In the middle anre the CPS (Criminal Protection Service) Even if a suspect is charged with an offence, they won't run it, unless they have a 90% chance of a conviction, then the offender gets off by admitting to alesser charge, which is acepted, 'cos it keeps them from overcrouding the prisons.........
The poor cops are trying to do there best and being let down by management, CPS, government and the general public. The cops can't do it all themselves.
 
#16
Needle_Point said:
Dzerzhinskiey said:
Problem is mate i think the latest batches of new recruits (or Student officers as they're now known as) are so indoctrinated into the culture of crime everything they have no concept of common sense or discretion.
I've got to say I don't agree with that Seagull. Remember the probationers/student officers are trained by older hands who are still using their discretion in spite of the powers that be trying to take it away. I've got 19mths in and I can honestly say I can see the wood for the trees.

You must work in a better area than me. There's PCs just out of probation tutoring street duties. (That's two years teaching those below).

oh i've stuffed up the quotemark thing, but you get the idea
I agree with you too mate, though not with the disagreeing with me. you get the idea.

from my limited experience of the latest batch they seem to be trained at what counts as training school by people who haven't seen the streets in years and then passed to tutors who have been in the cycle of crime everything and cover your arrse (and i don't blame them, we all have mortgages to pay) having not long been out of their probation themselves.

what i think this thread highlights is the erosion of the police officer on the grounds powers of discretion and common sense, i don't think for a moment that our weak police fedaration banging the drum about this will change anything. Targets are evrything to this government. :(
 
#18
The_Seagull said:
Needle_Point said:
Dzerzhinskiey said:
Problem is mate i think the latest batches of new recruits (or Student officers as they're now known as) are so indoctrinated into the culture of crime everything they have no concept of common sense or discretion.
I've got to say I don't agree with that Seagull. Remember the probationers/student officers are trained by older hands who are still using their discretion in spite of the powers that be trying to take it away. I've got 19mths in and I can honestly say I can see the wood for the trees.

You must work in a better area than me. There's PCs just out of probation tutoring street duties. (That's two years teaching those below).

oh i've stuffed up the quotemark thing, but you get the idea
I agree with you too mate, though not with the disagreeing with me. you get the idea.

from my limited experience of the latest batch they seem to be trained at what counts as training school by people who haven't seen the streets in years and then passed to tutors who have been in the cycle of crime everything and cover your arrse (and i don't blame them, we all have mortgages to pay) having not long been out of their probation themselves.

what i think this thread highlights is the erosion of the police officer on the grounds powers of discretion and common sense, i don't think for a moment that our weak police fedaration banging the drum about this will change anything. Targets are evrything to this government. :(
Seagull in the main I think you are right, I have been in nicks and not one of the shift had more than 3 years in!!! WTF I felt like a right old duffer with all these fresh faced 20 ish year olds running around...NOT ALL new Prob/trainer cons are the same BUT I find a lot of them are very young and appear inexperienced in 'life' let alone bobbying!!! Gov's/ACPO fault I feel as who in thier mid to late 20's having gained a bit of 'life' experience could afford to join the job on the wages now? I know when I joined and that was 14 years ago, I was 27 having done mi bit in green. I could only just afford to live on what they paid me then , no way could I buy a house , bring up a family etc on what they pay a 1st year Cons wages now.. 8O

Oh it does happen, but out of necessity I think. When I turned up to my team to start my street duties two other probies were being taken through and I was convinced that all three tutors had considerable experience from the way they went about their business. In fact my tutor had done 11yrs and the other two had been into 2 and a half years. We all got, in my opinion, a good grounding and are progresing well.
Sorry DERZ if you think 2 1/2 years is enougth experience well.....its not, I say the main problem is cops with just 2 years in can apply for specialist posts, I say that once in a bobby should be made to do AT LEAST 5 years GPD on the streets. Then if they want to move on fair enough..
 

JINGO

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#20
Dzerzhinskiey said:
The problem is running very deep right now, the Police as an organisation is in a self destructive spiral, recovery is i feel going to be very painful.
I don't think its that bad. I'm speaking from the coalface here and my team and the other teams at the station are plowing along knowing that no matter what we do somebody will not be happy-from with in or without the organisation. That is life and i'd say moral is at an acceptable level.

The main obstacles to this recovery are the simple facts that the "student officers" are being tutored (doubt its even called that anymore perhaps they are facilitators or some sh1t now) by officers with as little as 2 1/2-3 years service who have come of age within this culture (oh for a canteen!). The tutors have done the minimum time on the streets before cruising into a cushy non confrontational berth and then pass on this lack of nous to the newbies.
Common sense doesn't always come with age and experience-take a look around your crew room. The shorter average service of the majority of front line officers is due to I would say to older PC's going off to other departments such as CID, Traffic, Firearms etc. I'm not sure that being a tutor is non-confrontational as they have to go on the streets with their tutees.
Felix old boy I can of course only speak for the area and Constabulary I work for, all 43 are different. It was not so long ago that an officer would think nothing of completing his entire career in one area of one Division and the service that was provided was tailored to the offence,the location, the victim and the offender using that officers knowledge of the facts laid before him rather than a set of guidelines imposed by the Home Office.
Of course nobody will be happy with what we do that is a given, but i believe we were far more in touch with the public we served. Now we have internalised to the point we are about to disappear up our rusty cap stars. Its all about career developement and advancement. We seem to have forgtten why we exist in the first place.
I believe the man whose name you use would be able to give us a few pointers on how to run a successful internal security agency!
 

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