Police chiefs may quit if made accountable.

#1
From the BBC.

While I have a lot of time for Mr Orde, his line about this type of accountability destroying public trust was amazingly out of touch. I nearly chocked on my coffee. The reason these changes are needed is because the Police have already lost public trust.

There's a few little empires about to come tumbling down next year. If they want to resign then crack on, there will be plenty of others waiting to fill their shoes and do the policing the public wants. Lets not forget the Police are there to serve the public, not the other way around.

Police chief constables may resign if a Tory government tries to place forces under local political control, the head of their professional body has warned.

Sir Hugh Orde, of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said colleagues would resist being told how to protect the public by locally-elected leaders.
The Tories want these officials to be able to hire and fire police chiefs and set force budgets in England and Wales.

Sir Hugh said police independence was vital to public trust and democracy.
Sir Hugh, the former chief constable of Northern Ireland, took over as the president of Acpo earlier this year.

His appointment came in the aftermath of Sir Ian Blair quitting as the Metropolitan Police Commissioner after pressure to step down from London Mayor Boris Johnson.

In an interview for BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Sir Hugh warned democracy would be undermined if there was even a "perception" of political influence over chief constables.

"Operation independence is absolutely critical," he said.
"Even the perception that the police service of this country… is under any political influence, I think that suggests you cannot argue that you are a proper democratic society. It's as simple and as stark as that.

"Every chief officer fully understands the need to be held accountable.

"We must be operationally independent in terms of how we deliver policing. We should not be influenced by anyone who has any potential or suggestion for a political basis."

The Conservatives are committed to directly-elected political figures controlling forces around the country - although the details are still being drawn up ahead of next year's General Election.

They say police commissioners would be able to appoint and dismiss chief constables and also set policing priorities.
My bold, he is kidding right :oops:

Bring it on I say, its about time the Police remembered who they work for.
 
#7
Awol said:
Would you want Labour to be in officially in control of the police Ord?
God forbid - then we might have people arrested for heckling Labour Ministers at the Party Conferance. Or those who leak documents that embarass the Gub'mint might be arrested and their home searched by Plod!

...Oh, hang on... 8O

The police, at the senior level, have long since become the paramilitary wing of ZANU-Labour. :roll:
 
#8
They are drawing the battle lines for the next Conservative Government.

ACPO has gone way beyond it's original brief and if you had listened to Orde this morning it would be clear to you that he was throwing the gauntlet down.
 
#10
My point is that any influence at the moment is illegal and kept under the carpet. God knows what would happen if it became policy.
 
#12
RangeStew said:
Awol said:
Would you want Labour to be in officially in control of the police Ord?
They already are in all but name.
What he said. If politicians are going to influence the police then at least lets have one who is directly and locally elected pulling the strings, works pretty well for the Americans. It doesn't seem to have brought their democracy crashing down.

Influencing Police priorities is perfectly within a local politicians remit if you ask me. Current policing practice is no longer by the consensus of the people. Things have to change so this in my opinion this is a reasonable course to take.
 
#13
Heard this interview on the radio and found his response quite childish.
As yet nothing is set in stone,therefore still to be debated.Not so much Sir Hugh Orde throwing the gauntlet down as throwing is teddy out of the pram.As has been mentioned if they do leave I'm sure there are plenty to fill the void.
 
#14
There's definitely a distinct difference between being made accountable and having major (or minor) policing decisions being made for purely political purposes.

Would these 'Police commissioners' influence local police policy to dictate what is 'sexy' or current to curry favour with the public and win votes. Oh Yes!
Would policy be suited to appease the media and become disproportionate to the whole force policing plan? You bet!
Would the Chief Constables Annual Report look like a party manifesto for whoever is in power? I reckon so!

What if, by some chance, a BNP member got voted in the be Police Commissioner? As a member of the Police cannot be an active member of the BNP, how would that sit legally with the BNP controlling local and force police policy?

Dangerous ground.
Hell, let's just go the whole way and do the judicary too. That way we can set the sentencing guidelines with the help of the editor of The Sun.
 
#15
Chief Constables should be elected by the local populance.
Having been subject to theat lunatic Brunstrom's idea of policing I would say it is essential.
 

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#16
There has always been political influence. Chief Constables are appointed by the local Police Authority, which is made up of locally elected concillors. Prior to that it was The Watch Committe which was comprised of local landowners and dignitaries. The gift of Chief Constable was theirs, and no requirement for the appointee to be a copper, have ever had been one, or knew anything about the law.

The Comissioner of the Meropolitan Poile is accountable to the Home secretary.

The reason there are 43 forces is to maintain an ideal of independence. One national force could be terribly unweildy, with officers from Cornwall being posted to Cumbria. Loss of local knowledge, a great and wonderful tool, would be lost. And one Super Chief would wield tremendous power.

Like, for example, why have different colonels commanding regiments? Why not amalgamate all regts and corps and put one man in charge?
 
#18
Ord_Sgt said:
RangeStew said:
Awol said:
Would you want Labour to be in officially in control of the police Ord?
They already are in all but name.
What he said. If politicians are going to influence the police then at least lets have one who is directly and locally elected pulling the strings, works pretty well for the Americans. It doesn't seem to have brought their democracy crashing down.

Influencing Police priorities is perfectly within a local politicians remit if you ask me. Current policing practice is no longer by the consensus of the people. Things have to change so this in my opinion this is a reasonable course to take.
Back to my question Ord. How would you feel if your Labour MP announced he/she was going to order your local plod what to focus on and who to ignore?
 
#19
The Police are, and always have been part of the state. They serve their political masters, perhaps this guy didn't get it :lol:

It is always amusing seeing a representative of senior plod having a hissy fit. In this case maybe he should carry through with his threat, at least it would be one less wowser to worry about. Perhaps someone need remind him, that to get to a senior level in any police force you have to be on the right side of the pollies, which means a good deal of 'yes sir, no sir'. The silly old fool is biting the hand that feeds him :roll:
 
#20
Awol said:
Ord_Sgt said:
RangeStew said:
Awol said:
Would you want Labour to be in officially in control of the police Ord?
They already are in all but name.
What he said. If politicians are going to influence the police then at least lets have one who is directly and locally elected pulling the strings, works pretty well for the Americans. It doesn't seem to have brought their democracy crashing down.

Influencing Police priorities is perfectly within a local politicians remit if you ask me. Current policing practice is no longer by the consensus of the people. Things have to change so this in my opinion this is a reasonable course to take.
Back to my question Ord. How would you feel if your Labour MP announced he/she was going to order your local plod what to focus on and who to ignore?
Taking the Labour MP out of the question, I have no problem at all with a locally elected Police commissioner telling the Police what to focus on, if he gets it wrong then he will get the boot and be replaced.
 

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