Police carrying out stop and search just for statistics

#1
At first I thought this was just another moan from those who like to go on about such things. But no.

More real life nonsense and waste of time created by those who feel the need to play numbers games, this time baseless stops to show "racial balance" in S44 stop statistics.

"I have evidence of cases where the person stopped is so obviously far from any known terrorism profile that, realistically, there is not the slightest possibility of him/her being a terrorist, and no other feature to justify the stop.

"In one situation the basis of the stops was numerical only, which is almost certainly unlawful and in no way an intelligent use of the procedure.

"I believe it is totally wrong for any person to be stopped in order to produce a racial balance in the Section 44 statistics. There is ample anecdotal evidence this is happening.

"I can well understand the concerns of the police that they should be free from allegations of prejudice, but it is not a good use of precious resources if they waste them on self-evidently unmerited searches.

"It is also an invasion of the civil liberties of the person who has been stopped, simply to 'balance' the statistics.

"The criteria for section 44 stops should be objectively based, irrespective of racial considerations: if an objective basis happens to produce an ethnic imbalance, that may have to be regarded as a proportional consequence of operational policing."
:

Lord Carlise

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-out-stop-and-search-just-for-statistics.html
 
#2
sorry but the whole point of S44 is that there is no need for any grounds to exist.... its designed to disrupt terrorist activity by making it difficult to operate in sensitive areas.... so searching by numbers to randomise who is stopped appears to be a fair way of doing this.

Trotsky
 
#3
All we need now is Pass Laws and all will be perfect in the Metropolitan Police State.
 
#5
Trotsky said:
sorry but the whole point of S44 is that there is no need for any grounds to exist.... its designed to disrupt terrorist activity by making it difficult to operate in sensitive areas.... so searching by numbers to randomise who is stopped appears to be a fair way of doing this.

Trotsky
True, but you have missed the point. The S44 stops complained of have absolutely no function other than to "normalise" the overall statistics in a pointless attempt to show that there has been no ethnic bias.

They therefore represent an absolute waste of time and resources.
 
#6
Blogg said:
Trotsky said:
sorry but the whole point of S44 is that there is no need for any grounds to exist.... its designed to disrupt terrorist activity by making it difficult to operate in sensitive areas.... so searching by numbers to randomise who is stopped appears to be a fair way of doing this.

Trotsky
True, but you have missed the point. The S44 stops complained of have absolutely no function other than to "normalise" the overall statistics in a pointless attempt to show that there has been no ethnic bias.
Does that mean I can claim "You're only picking on me 'cos I is white and middle class"?

Now, what is my lawyer's number? :wink:
 
#7
If your only stopping one group its likely to make them highly resentful.... as was recognised in some of our colonial wars where white settlers used to get stopped as well as "natives" and anyway, what does a terrorist look like? There are white muslims (and I also read once of a black IRA man) so working on "profiles" would seem to be complacent to me....
.

Trotsky
 
#8
Trotsky said:
If your only stopping one group its likely to make them highly resentful.... as was recognised in some of our colonial wars where white settlers used to get stopped as well as "natives" and anyway, what does a terrorist look like? There are white muslims (and I also read once of a black IRA man) so working on "profiles" would seem to be complacent to me....
I despise racism because it creates 'counter-racism' which leads to 'positive discrimination' and balls like this. If the vast majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by 18-30 year old asian men, 18-30 year old asian men should be the ones getting stopped and searched! The same would go for any other set of physical characteristics.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
Surely picking on someone to stop and search without due cause is the criminal offence of harrassment?
 
#10
Trotsky said:
If your only stopping one group its likely to make them highly resentful.... as was recognised in some of our colonial wars where white settlers used to get stopped as well as "natives" and anyway, what does a terrorist look like? There are white muslims (and I also read once of a black IRA man) so working on "profiles" would seem to be complacent to me....
.

Trotsky
Where as stopping people for no other reason than appeasing the race relations industry makes everyone resentful.

Another step in the march towards ZaNuLabour's police state. How long before plod start demanding to see the ZaNuLabour id card just because they can and it helps their statistics.

And plod wonder why they have lost the support of the people they pretend to serve
 
#11
seaweed said:
Surely picking on someone to stop and search without due cause is the criminal offence of harrassment?
Pah. You'll be saying that tracking and recording the everyday movements, conversations and actions of innocent people - or locking them up for 90 days without charge - is harrassment next.
 
#12
when AQ use a white female to do hostile recce, but we missed it because we were "harrassing"Asian men, I am sure you will all be the first people to scream about police racisim leading to complacency.

Trotsky
 
#13
Trotsky said:
when AQ use a white female to do hostile recce, but we missed it because we were "harrassing"Asian men, I am sure you will all be the first people to scream about police racisim leading to complacency.
What planet are you on?

We have limited resources and it's much more likely to be the other way around. Whilst AQ were doing hostile recce (whatever the f*ck that is) we were busy 'harassing' white people to be equal and fair and diverse.
 
#15
Trotsky said:
when AQ use a white female to do hostile recce, but we missed it because we were "harrassing"Asian men, I am sure you will all be the first people to scream about police racisim leading to complacency.

Trotsky
Stop digging mate, you are beginning to sound like a Health and Safety Manager. :)
 
#16
DD what force are you in, It doesn't sound to me like you have any experience of policing London, otherwise you would know what hostile recce was?

Trotsky
 
#17
Trotsky said:
DD what force are you in, It doesn't sound to me like you have any experience of policing London, otherwise you would know what hostile recce was?
I know what 'hostile reconnaissance' is, but I don't understand how reconnaissance itself can be hostile. It sounds to me like another one of those phrases coined to frighten the public into allowing another of their civil liberties to be taken away.
 
#18
S44 only applies in certain areas anyway; the question is why do these control areas need to exist without a specific threat being present? If an officer has reasons to be suspicious of a person then ample search laws exists under S43 Terrorism and PACE. Stopping individuals for no reason just to get the numbers up is a waste of time and pen ink, an invasion of privacy and damages relations between the service and the community.
 
#19
So, if you are not prepared to stop people how do you propose to disrupt this kind of activity? By definition intelligence led policing will only stop what you know about, not what you don't. S44 operations make it difficult to for terrorists to operate. They don't know when they are going to be chanelled into a search arch, or meet an expo dog. .... these things are labour intensive,there not exactly meeting any home office clear up targets and to be quite frank they are monotonous to carry out, but they make the other lots life difficult and i think we all need to except its part and parcel of London life (and yes, i live and work in London to)

Trotsky
 
#20
DeltaDog said:
Trotsky said:
If your only stopping one group its likely to make them highly resentful.... as was recognised in some of our colonial wars where white settlers used to get stopped as well as "natives" and anyway, what does a terrorist look like? There are white muslims (and I also read once of a black IRA man) so working on "profiles" would seem to be complacent to me....
I despise racism because it creates 'counter-racism' which leads to 'positive discrimination' and balls like this. If the vast majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by 18-30 year old asian men, 18-30 year old asian men should be the ones getting stopped and searched! The same would go for any other set of physical characteristics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Lindsay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(terrorist)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-restaurant-blamed-Britains-war-on-Islam.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ted-over-Gordon-Brown-assassination-plot.html


yeah good point - i forgot that its only asians who are muslims or terrorists, and of course any terrorists watching potential targets as part of a 'hostile recce' - (dry run or target selection) wouldnt be worried by seeing officers randomly searching people and the possibility of their fledgling operation being discovered and foiled.

and of course if terrorists saw only Asian men being searched, the wouldnt possibly then focus their recruiting on western looking people or women would they.

its not as if the Palestinians ever used women or kids did they


Doh!
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads