Police cannot be trusted with fines, magistrates warn

#3
What a load of tosh! Everyone has the right to have the matter heard by a court from the lowly £30 parking fine to a Penalty Notice for Disorder. What these do is allow those that know they are clearly guilty to get the matter over with , without the hassle of going to court.

We all know that Magistrates have a 'Hang 'em High' attitude ........NOT

Magistrates dish out puny sentences, conditional discharges and pultry fines, the only people they hammer are the Middle Class drivers who have a job and can be fined hard.

If the courts were a real deterrent then perhaps there would not be so many offenders, that alternative means of disposal are necessary.

Build more prisons, make the prisoners do the labouring in bright orange or pink boiler suits, chained together. 20 man cells, no TV, Classic FM piped through the cells and visitors once a quarter.

Oh, and bring back hanging!

:twisted:
 
#6
rickshaw-major said:
Answer is as simple as

" I will go to Court"
Exactly - More to the point this is backwards anyway because more and more bobbies deal with offences by way of warning or arrest as the fixed penalty system has far more hoops than an arrest file (Which you can get assistance with in some forces/roles).

I find it strange that magistrates have said this and wonder what their motivation is.
 
#7
duffdike said:
Plod can't be trusted with anything.
Is it because they have lost their bottle and need replacing immediately?

:roll:

Jog on War Hero!
 
#8
plod get a poor deal and if you want to blame anyone blame the CPS!


unless you are a jumped up plod that everyone hates!! take a chill pill 3369 i was only doing 73 mph ffs!
 
#9
I think that the Mags are beginning to feel the pinch of their empty courts.

With the introduction of the Shadow/Statutory Charging scheme whereby the CPS decide on charging in all but the most minor cases the courts aren't as busy as the CPS (with their targets to reach in terms of conviction rates) are loath to touch anything that isn't as watertight as a mermaids brassier.

It's not all the CPS's fault as perhaps the quality of evidence presented could do with improving but I can't help but think that some of the "weaker" cases that used to get charged by the OB, which the CPS would not now touch, would go to court and be found guilty or cough it on the day.

The OB and the CPS are now a court in all but name. The police with their ability to hand out on the spot punishment (of the fiscal sort) and the CPS deciding on what gets tested in court.

Though on the subject of Fixed Penalties, one doesn't have to accept it and can instead choose to argue the case in court which is their right.
 
#10
Some people need to read the broadsheets. It's more about the Police being put in an improper position in law than a matter of trust. This particular offence is a matter of a Police Officer's opinion which is normally tested in court.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#12
MittMayo said:
Nothing like a well researched, evidenced, balanced and objective view to add to the debate!! :?
Why should he change the habits of a lifetime?
 
#13
woodandy3 said:
plod get a poor deal and if you want to blame anyone blame the CPS!


unless you are a jumped up plod that everyone hates!! take a chill pill 3369 i was only doing 73 mph ffs!
Only 73, but in a 30 zone though... :wink: :p :p :p :p
 
#14
western said:
Some people need to read the broadsheets. It's more about the Police being put in an improper position in law than a matter of trust. This particular offence is a matter of a Police Officer's opinion which is normally tested in court.
Good Point - Well made!

I must admit I often say "I'm not judge, jury and executioner" to people so it would be a shame to have to get a new one liner!
 
#15
Closet_Jibber said:
western said:
Some people need to read the broadsheets. It's more about the Police being put in an improper position in law than a matter of trust. This particular offence is a matter of a Police Officer's opinion which is normally tested in court.
Good Point - Well made!

I must admit I often say "I'm not judge, jury and executioner" to people so it would be a shame to have to get a new one liner!
I'd rather be Judge Judy and Executioner. :D
 
#16
I always had an absolute trust and respect for the Police. This started with homilies from grand-parents and parents, progressed to observing Sgt Griffen and his night-stick on Saturday nights in Abertillery. The respect continued with a thank-you letter from the 'Met' for assisting a lone constable detain a violent man and finally to welcoming as my son-in-law a real, helmet wearing, 'bobby' serving in the 'Met'.

All this changed, excepting my respect and liking for my son-in-law (now in the Gwent Constabulary) with the advent of Bliar T; Bliar I; the rise of ACPO as a quasi-political organisation; 'targets'; ludicrous legislation - courtesy of Bliar T and other aspects including the 'Dominic Grieve fiasco' and the recent 'shambles' of the 'policing' of the G20 protesters.

The guy on the street is largely to be trusted, admired and respected, as is his sergeant. Thereafter, 'politics' and 'career prospects' kick in together with the pursuance of targets rather than criminals. Sad.
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#17
About 30 or so years ago there was a move to let constables issue fines and collect them, for minor offences. This was fought against by the Federation and by ACPO. The feds view was that it put the bobby in the position of judging, and that was not acceptable, His (generic his) job was to detect the offence and put forward the evidence to prove it, under the accepted homily that a person was innocent until proved guilty in a properly constituted court of law. ACPO took the view that as coppers wages were so poor, they may be tempted to pocket such fines or somehow obtain a pecuniary advantage from them.
Whichever argument prevailed, it was the right decision. Police officers should not be making judgement, not be handing out fines, other than parking tickets. The idea of CPs was a superb and wise thought; the application is appalling. Cases, as previously mentioned, that would have gone to court and been prosecuted fully, are now not considered lest the 'target' culture fall below the accepted and desired figures. Magistrates have had their powers reduced and emasculated by sentencing guidelines, which have proved to be more order than a guide.
 
#18
It is so ironic that all the Human Rights wonks recently got their panties ruched over Commanding Officers disciplinary powers and in particular the summary powers. The same Zanu-NL has given every jobsworth the power to fine somebody for something. They have also reformed the CPR for civil courts and effectively abolished the entitlement to any trial AT ALL in civil cases.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#19
Closet_Jibber said:
duffdike said:
Plod can't be trusted with anything.
Is it because they have lost their bottle and need replacing immediately?

:roll:

Jog on War Hero!

Can't see the issue here. The Germans hand out on the spot fines for all sorts as do the Dutch and no doubt a good number of other Continental Police Forces. If a Roads Policing Officer here in the UK stops you for careless driving, he's generally got the corroborative evidence on video in the car. If you really do want to drag it out, there's nothing to stop you going to court. Personally, if I was made to sit in the back of a car and watch a video of my 'careless' driving, I'd be more than happy to pay up there and then, rather than go through the embarrassment of having to watch it in the public glare of the Magisrates Court and recieve a higher level of fine from them for wasting everybody's time. As for any other minor offences, then crack on.

If it keeps paperwork down and gets coppers back out in amongst the public then it works for me.
 
#20
Biscuits_AB said:
If it keeps paperwork down and gets coppers back out in amongst the public then it works for me.
Apparently it used to. Unfortunately the paperwork all has to be duplicated on computer now as well as a a full notebook entry and statement.

The only difference between Fixed Penalty and Summons now is The Disclosure documentation (Which is a copy and paste document).
 

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