Poisonous anti TA spin continues in MOD annual report

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by MemoRAndum, Jul 22, 2008.

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  1. Testing?

    Attached Files:

  2. Well, are the in Afgan or Iraq etc or are they are on an ex?
  3. Maybe the document was written by an infanteer or SAA instructor and uses the word as in 'test and adjust'...?
  4. msr

    msr LE

    And why should the TA get a pasting in the Torygraph and not the RAF Reserves?

    The report says it has also become "increasingly challenging" to provide enough Territorial Army soldiers for the frontline where they make up 10 per cent of troops.

    From the report:

    Royal Naval Reserve personnel available for mobilisation 81% of requirement;
    Royal Marines Reserve personnel available for mobilisation 65% of requirement;
    Territorial Army; personnel available for mobilisation 46% of requirement;
    Royal Auxiliary Air Force personnel available for mobilisation 23% of requirement.
  5. I think this is just paranoia - as the "comment" was probably written by an author who was given the photo with a quick byline from whoever wanted to use it, I wouldnt describe it as poisonous anti TA spin.

    The figures on mobilisation are interesting - is it a reflection of the fact that the TA has been a lot busier in recent years compared to the other forces - RNR is at 81% available because so few have been used compared to the TA - more individual augmentees than formed units. The figure hides a lot of the challenges that will hit the RNR in the next few years with an aging manpower pool and decreasing recruitment though.
  6. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Some stats (approximate figures):

    Army Budget: £8 billion
    Army Personnel: 125,000
    Army Deployed: 7,000 (Afghanistan & Iraq)
    Percentage Deployed: 5.6%

    T.A. Budget: £350 million (4.38% of Army Budget)
    T.A. Personnel: 21,000 (16.8% of regular numbers)
    T.A. Deployed: 700 (Afghanistan & Iraq)
    Percentage Deployed: 3.33%

    Additional note: 17,000 tours completed by T.A. personnel; almost one tour for each member serving.

    Not bad for a bunch of casual employees with bugger all employment rights, no pensions, most with full time civvy jobs, earning more in civvy street than the T.A., little training provision and minimal kit provision (such as tanks, APC's, Sniper rifles etc etc etc).
  7. A bit of an exaggeration!
  8. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - they are approximations. :D
  9. As at 1 May 08 (Army Personnel Statistics Report)

    Army = 101,800

    TA = 35,420

    Therefore (assuming that your deployed stats are accurate - and bearing in mind you do not include the FIs et al) the stats should read:

    Reg Deployed: 6.7%
    TA Deployed: 1.9%
  10. This unclas report may help. Sorry if the tables don't display properly...:

    (Updated 19 March 2008)

    Area Facts
    (a) (b)
    TA Cost
    a. How much does it cost to run the TA each year?
    £404m (MCS(A) Study 2007)
    Estimated TA soldier cost per annum - £10k. Regular soldier cost per annum - £55k. (NAO Report into Reserve Forces 2006)

    b. What % is this of the annual defence budget?

    TA Strength

    a. Total Number of TA
    30,700 Officers and Soldiers plus 5,000 OTC Cadets (Note: Last official DASA figure is at 1 Mar 07). Current JPA combined total is 35,080.

    b. Breakdown by Region
    Regional Breakdown as at Jun 07.
    Officer Soldier Total OTC
    2 DIV 634 6888 7522 2600
    4 DIV 265 1857 2122 1207
    5 DIV 707 6660 7367 1015
    LONDIST 392 1663 2055 505
    NI 86 860 946 946
    Fd Army 2114 5610 7724 0
    Officer 80 153 233 0

    c. Breakdown by Gender
    Female Officer 23.8%
    Female Soldier 15.1%

    d. Breakdown by Religion
    Not Available.

    e. Breakdown by Ethnicity
    Not Available.

    f. Breakdown by age
    Age % Strength
    16 to 19 7.2%
    19 to 24 21.5%
    25 to 29 13.6%
    30 to 34 13.5%
    35 to 39 14.9%
    40 to 44 13.3%
    45 to 49 9.2%
    50 to 54 4.4%
    55 to 59 2.0%
    60 to 64 0.4%

    g. Breakdown of TA by Employment Type
    Employed 20597 66%
    Self-Employed 1941 6%
    Unemployed 3789 12%
    Student 4583 15%
    Other Not Recorded

    Numbers Serving in the TA

    (Less FTRS, OTC and NRPS personnel)
    a. As at 1 Apr 2008
    Official figures unavailable – Unofficial figure is 30,500 (DASA will publish the figure by 1 Apr 08)
    b. As at 1 Apr 2007
    c. As at 1 Apr 2006
    d. As at 1 Apr 2005
    e. As at 1 Apr 2004
    f. As at 1 Apr 2003
    No official figures available (Note: Record keeping procedures were changed in October 2003)
    g. Overall % increase / decrease1 Apr 04 to 1 Apr 07
    Ratio of Officers to other Ranks

    a. TA Officer to Soldier (based on strength)
    Officers 15%
    Soldiers 85%
    Historical Deployment

    a. Total number deployed since 1999
    See Table below.
    Total for 5 years is 10,968 (Note this is all TA and Reg Res (approximately 94% TA))

    Current Deployment

    a. Total Currently Deployed
    Total TA, Reg Res, SRs deployed – 723
    [total mobilised – 1,222, this includes PDT, POTL, sick]

    a. b. Deployment by Country
    Iraq – 150
    Afghanistan – 543
    Balkans – 16
    GCT – 12
    Cyprus - 2

    a. Current ratio of Regulars to Reservists
    10% (Note: includes extra ordinary deployment of TA Fd Hosp and the TA SAS on ANP Monitoring task)

    a. Current ratio of Regulars to Reservists


    a. a. Current ratio of Regulars to Reservists
    As at 1 Apr 08 – 15% rising to 90% on Oct 08

    FTRS and Sponsored Reserves
    a. Number of Full Time Reserve Service posts
    520 (Note: Official figure as at 1 Mar 2007)

    b. Breakdown of Full Time Reserve Service to remainder of the TA

    c. Number of Sponsored Reservists

    Objection to Deployment
    a. Number of people who have objected to deployment and exercised their right to say no since 2003.
    2222 (Note: 1161 in TELIC 1. 1536 have been upheld)

    Numbers and Names of TA Killed on Operation Since 2003
    a. The number of TA personnel that have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Name Date of Death Cause of Death
    Private Jason Smith (TA) 13 August 2003 Non-Battle Death
    Corporal Dewi Pritchard (TA) 23 August 2003 Killed in Action
    Fusilier Russell Beeston (TA) 27 August 2003 Killed in Action
    Sergeant John Bowes Nightingale (TA) 23 September 2003 Non-Battle Death
    Private Mark Dobson (TA) 28 March 2005 Non-Battle Death

    Name Date of Death Cause of Death
    Private Jonathan Kitulagoda (TA) 28 January 2004 Killed in Action
    Colour Sergeant Phillip Newman (TA) 19 September 2007 Vehicle Accident
    Trooper Jack Sadler (TA) 4 December 2007 Died of Wounds

    a. The number of people who have gone through the RTMC at Chilwell since 1 Jan 03.

    b. b. The approximate (includes Reg Res) % TA drop out/failure rate against callout rate since 1 Jan 03)
    IRAQ Medical 9.8% Dental 1.8% Training 0.02%
    AFGHANISTAN Medical 1.9% Dental 1.5% Training 0.6%
    a. The average % of TA personnel that qualify for bounty each year.

    a. The number that have refused deployment in last five years.
    IRAQ - 1765 Applications (1178 successful) incl 919 on TELIC 1 when 1067 RR called out with only 23% mobilized. Only 5 Employer Applications on TELIC 11.
    AFGHANISTAN - 92 Applications (84 successful)

    TA Units
    a. The number of TA Centres.
    411 (source - TA Information Centre)
    b. Number of TA Regiments (Major Units).

    TA Vacancies
    a. The current shortfall against TA establishment.
    7800 (Note: Official figure as at 1 Mar 2007 – less FTRS, NRPS and OTC)

    University Students
    a. Number of OTC cadets.
    4,500 OCdts and 500 TA staff.

    b. Conversion rate to regulars.
    Just under 300 a year enter RMAS, which accounts for approx 40% of the total intake.

    c. The number that remain in the TA after university.
    Approx 150 transfer to Group A units.

    a. How much does a TA soldier get paid?
    TA Officers and Soldiers are paid the same as their Regular counterparts once they are mobilised. They do not receive the same level of X factor in their pay when not on operations. The average daily rates of TA pay are as shown below:

    Brig £241.07 WO1 £98.15
    Col £202.24 WO2 £91.73
    Lt Col £169.19 SSgt £85.27
    Maj £125.82 Sgt £76.47
    Capt £100.73 Cpl £69.92
    Lt/2Lt £59.02 LCpl £53.61
    Pte £46.82
    Recruit £32.72
  11. Is that trained strength for the army?

    The TA arn't as badly off as I thought, even when you deduct the cadets. I'd read somewhere they were down to 23,000!
  12. Pob02

    Pob02 War Hero Book Reviewer

    or ( and I love the way we can all play with figures to all get different answers):

    "Numbers Serving in the TA
    (Less FTRS, OTC and NRPS personnel)
    a. As at 1 Apr 2008
    Official figures unavailable – Unofficial figure is 30,500 (DASA will publish the figure by 1 Apr 08)"
    "a. Total number deployed since 1999
    See Table below.
    Total for 5 years is 10,968 (Note this is all TA and Reg Res (approximately 94% TA))"
    gives us almost 36% of TA deployed in last 5 years.

    Aren't stats fun ?
    or we can even get :
    a. The number of people who have gone through the RTMC at Chilwell since 1 Jan 03.
    " so if all of these were not repeat offenders (which of course some are) we get almost 85% of TA mobilised . . . which is of course complete rubbish, but just a rather obvious example of spinning stats to how what you want.
  13. Pob02

    Pob02 War Hero Book Reviewer

    That will not be the regular attendee figure . . . . . my TA coy has about 110 on the books. Of that the most I have seen on parade at any one time is nearer 50, and that includes recruits.
  14. they are testing the light gunj as there is a REME Gun fitter's thingy stuffed down the barrel - see the black hose poking out the front. It is being cleaned or tested.

    Regulars can go through Chilwell too, so the 25,000 figure is not all TA, but will certainly include many individual placement/augmentee personnel that aren't trained at in unit OPTAGs.

    Does Royal Auxiliary Air Force include RAF (V) as well, or are they different?